Add Prime and then aquarium salt, or ....?

[jcardona1]

I wasn't saying to not dechlorinate, but prime does other stuff like lock ammonia. Not thats its bad but those added effects on an established tank are not needed. Removing chlorine is essential, I only use dechlorinator in my tank, that's all I was saying.

Then you obviously don't understand how it works. If your water has chloramine, then you need Prime. Chloramine is a chlorine & ammonia bond. Prime will break the bond, which results in chlorine and ammonia. Prime will then neutralize the chlorine, and detoxify the ammonia. It does exactly what it needs to do.

 

[eatingleg4peanut]

What? What is your basis for this statement? What about those with chlorine/chloramines in their water? Perform a big enough water change with tapwater and no water conditioner and you could kill your fish. Overkill? I think not.

As for salt, there really is no need. Lots of people have kept fish for years without ever adding salt, like me. I used to add it, but then I stopped when I really couldn't figure out why I was adding it. IMO, salt should only be used when treating fish.

I explained above, what I meant is that in an established tank, the only thing needed is dechlirination, prime has added effects that IMO are only useful in transporting fish, or if something in your water parameters is out of wack (in which case addressing the problem is more important that adding prime, but prime will help short term). What I meant by overkill is that simple tap water dechlorinator is all that's needed in an established tank, prime does this, but also has additional unnecessary effects. I'm not saying to stop using prime, but IME, tap dechlorinator is all thats needed in a WC.

edit to your post: i do know how it works, well established tanks have neither chlorine or ammonia, so chloramine doesn't happen. I'm not bashing prime, just gave my opinion from my experience, not trying to make anyone mad.

 

[MonsterMinis]

It shouldn't make a difference.. but I agree generally useing the de-chlor first to let it do it's job is a good idea.

Salt used in set-ups is always touchy.. imo it really boils down to what species you're keeping. some fish require some salt in their water, while others need minimal/trace amounts. So depending on the species you keep in your tank depends on if you need salt or not. I would be very careful about salinity if you do use salt regularly since it is very easy to bring your salinity to high. Osmotic shock is a big issue when dealing with salt levels in FW tanks. Salt generally is used in treating Ick along with other bacterial infections. The organismis can't tolerate the salinity that the fish can. Just like any other "medicine" It can be dangerous if not used properly. Most LFS that deal in SW tanks/fish can do a salinity test for you. a hydrometer is nice to have but not as accurate as refractometer ( which imo a good SW lfs will use )

 

[jcardona1]

edit to your post: i do know how it works, well established tanks have neither chlorine or ammonia, so chloramine doesn't happen. I'm not bashing prime, just gave my opinion from my experience, not trying to make anyone mad.

WHAT!!! Chlorine or chloramines come out of the tap. They are added by your city. Since chlorine will dissipate quickly out of the water, some cities have been adding chloramines instead of chlorine. Do you ever do water changes on an established tank? Of course you do right? It's simple. If your tapwater has chloramines, and you do water changes straight from the tap, then you are introducing chloramines into your tank, end of story. Chloramines don't magically appear in your tank. Since chloramines don't dissipate out of the water like, you need something to 1) Break the chlormaine bond and 2) take care of the resulting chlorine and ammonia. And that is where Prime comes in. It has NOTHING to do with your tank being established or not. It comes from your FAUCET!

Please stop giving out advice over something you do not understand.

 

[eatingleg4peanut]

wow, your aweful angry. Tap water dechrinators remove chlorine, chloramine and in a lot of cases heavy metals. It says so on they bottle(s), you saying I dont know what I'm talking about is just you being rude and completely ignorant as you don't know me in the slightest. If you have ammonia, chlorine and chloramine in your established tank god help your fish, other wise you are talking about treating tap water you are adding in which case the ammonia, nitrate and nitrite effects are not needed in an established tank, hence the overkill comment. This will be the last post I dedicate to you as I find it quite offensive the way you have reacted.

 

[jcardona1]

wow, your aweful angry. Tap water dechrinators remove chlorine, chloramine and in a lot of cases heavy metals. It says so on they bottle(s), you saying I dont know what I'm talking about is just you being rude and completely ignorant as you don't know me in the slightest. If you have ammonia, chlorine and chloramine in your established tank god help your fish, other wise you are talking about treating tap water you are adding in which case the ammonia, nitrate and nitrite effects are not needed in an established tank, hence the overkill comment. This will be the last post I dedicate to you as I find it quite offensive the way you have reacted.

I'm not being rude. I've tried several times explaining how it works but you refuse to read what I write. Anybody who says that established tanks don't have ammonia and chlorines, so you shouldn't get chloramines obviously has no understanding of water chemistry. Also, this comment: "If you have ammonia, chlorine and chloramine in your established tank god help your fish,". Again, I don't think you quite understand how this works when you do water changes. Sorry if that seems rude, but it's the simple truth. No need to sugar coat it.

I'll try to make it simpler.

- If your tapwater has chlorine ONLY, then a simply dechlorinator will suffice.

- If your tapwater has chloramines, then you need a more advanced product. Chloramine = chlorine+ammonia. It's a chemical bond.

- Prime is a water conditioner that takes care of chloramines. It doesn't actually 'remove' chloramines. It breaks the chlorine+ammonia bond, which results in chlorine AND ammonia in your water. Prime will then neutralize the chlorine, and detoxify the ammonia, so you don't overload your bio filter with ammonia from doing water changes, which is probably a small amount anyways.

You're right in saying an established tank should have ammonia and nitrites. But what you don't get is how these water conditioners work. If you have chloramines in your water, water conditioners will break that bond, introducing ammonia to your tank.

This might help you understand: http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/waterfaqs/f/faq0050.-5eR.htm

 

[jcardona1]

A little more info:

It is important that you find out which one your local water supplier uses, as chloramine is harder to get rid off than chlorine.

• Tip: Also ask them if they plan to switch to chloramine in the future. Most are.

Once you've discovered the chemical type you need to choose the water conditioner which is right for you. Most conditioners can be separated into two types.

1. Those that remove chlorine and claim that they breakup, neutralise or remove chloramine, but leave ammonia behind after breaking up chloramine.
2. Those that remove either of the two chemicals and also neutralise the ammonia caused by the break up of chloramine.

If your tap water has chlorine you can use either of these.

If you have chloramine, then you need the second type. Here's why.

Sadly not all conditioner manufacturers who make the first type tell their customers that they may also need to use a second product that neutralises the ammonia released from the breakup of chloramine. This often comes to light when the customer tests their water for the presence of ammonia and finds a high quantity in the water after a water change and they've added a water conditioner

 

[Pandamania]

jcardona1, try not to worry so much. Most of us really do 'get it'. It's just a few special people, that cannot quite wrap their mind around what you have explained. Thank you for breaking every thing down so nice and simple! And since Aclockworkorange had his thread about Seachem and Prime and all of those things, I have been using Prime all the time. And also the Stability, that seems to work good too. I don't ever run out of the stuff, I always have an unopen bottle of each in my supplies. Thanks again for all of your patience and experienced info.

 

[aclockworkorange]

Funny to see my name pop up when checking threads.

Just wanted to add that jcardona is completely right (of course )... And that you do NOT need Stability once your tank is cycled. You also don't need salt on a regular basis. All you need to add is Prime.

 

[xrayjeeper83]

I agree with clockwork, Prime is only thing needed. If your fish need salt you wouldnt use aquarium salt anyways. That salt is only good for ich and other problems