Advice needed on awc and additives

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illumnae

Plecostomus
MFK Member
Feb 13, 2011
116
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Singapore
I currently have a 600 gallon tank with a remote 125 gallon sump. The tank is currently set up for an entirely automated water change system using 2 calibrated peristaltic pumps. One pump draws water from the sump into the drain, while the other pump draws water into the tank from a barrel containing ro water. The ro water barrel is kept full all the time using a float switch and an rodi filter with an auto shut off valve. The system has failsafes in case the pumps are not entirely calibrated against each other by an auto top off system (in case drain is faster than fill) and an overflow pipe in the sump (in case fill is faster than drain). I change about 40 gallons a day using this system and it has served me pretty well for 2 years.

The main reason that this system works for me is that I have been keeping blackwater South American cichlids and so doing water changes with ro water works for the fish that require almost 0 tds and very low ph to do well (my ro water comes out at about 16 tds and my tank constantly maintains ph at 4.0).

I have recently had to tear down the tank to redo the 3d background and am now considering changing the type of fish I keep. My wife wants me to do a monster ranchu/oranda goldfish tank, while my lfs is encouraging me to give Tanganyika lake cichlids a shot. However, I would still like to maintain my fuss free water change regime.

The problem I have with goldfish is that while my tap water is good enough to keep goldfish, I am not sure if it's possible to set up a tap water filter with an auto shut off valve so that flow can be cut off when the water change barrel is full. The last time I tried this with a normal 3 stage water filter, the back pressure created by the float switch when the barrel was full caused the hoses connecting the system to explode and flooded my fish room. I don't have that problem with the ro system due to the auto shut off valve which somehow relieves that pressure.

If I were to stick with ro water, I can still keep goldfish and Tanganyika cichlids by dosing buffers into the water. However, changing 40-50 gallons of water a day, I would need to dose a considerable amount of buffer liquid, given that the dissolving rate of these buffers aren't very high. So I might need to dose1 1-2 gallons of buffer liquid a day. 2 problems with this is that first, I would need a dosing pump capable of dosing such a large amount of buffer liquid in a day and second, I would need a huge buffer barrel to not have to mix up a new batch of buffer liquid every few days which I don't really have the space for anymore.

Can anyone suggest any practical ways for me to either be able to maintain an automated tap water barrel, or a feasible way to perhaps dose powdered buffer into my system daily so that I can keep other types of fish? Or am I stuck with keeping blackwater fish in my system?
 
You have a "safety" overflow in your sump now to protect against pump imbalance; wouldn't it be fairly simple to install another such overflow in your tap water barrel and then tinker with the fill rate of that barrel so that this overflow is used very little, if at all?

I guess I am not understanding the problem with the backpressure damage to the plumbing in your system. The overflow I mention above seems very inelegant and inefficient...but not nearly as much so as the idea of using an RO system to create large quantities of water (which I assume is used for other domestic purposes as well?) and then re-mineralizing that hard-won RO water with still more inelegant automation to create water which will be close to that which comes out of your tap to begin with.

...The last time I tried this with a normal 3 stage water filter, the back pressure created by the float switch when the barrel was full caused the hoses connecting the system to explode and flooded my fish room. I don't have that problem with the ro system due to the auto shut off valve which somehow relieves that pressure.

This part ^ is difficult to understand. The back pressure "created" by the float switch can't be any more than the original pressure in the feed system, can it? In which case, wasn't the problem really a result of some flawed execution in that part of the plumbing? A simple fix?

Sorry I can't be much help, I hope someone chimes in with more experience with these systems. One question, if I may: Am I reading your pH correctly: 4???
 
Why not just have tap water flow to the holding barrel by gravity, instead of a pump. In this way, water in pipes just sits when the float valve is closed (not enough excess pressure to cause a problem)
Pumping against a closed valve is always fraught with complications, but my guess is, using straight tap water (if even remotely hard) would be perfect for goldfish or Tanganykans, no need for the RO and remineralization.
So no need to pump to the holding barrel, if plumbed right, just normal house presure.
 
You have a "safety" overflow in your sump now to protect against pump imbalance; wouldn't it be fairly simple to install another such overflow in your tap water barrel and then tinker with the fill rate of that barrel so that this overflow is used very little, if at all?

I guess I am not understanding the problem with the backpressure damage to the plumbing in your system. The overflow I mention above seems very inelegant and inefficient...but not nearly as much so as the idea of using an RO system to create large quantities of water (which I assume is used for other domestic purposes as well?) and then re-mineralizing that hard-won RO water with still more inelegant automation to create water which will be close to that which comes out of your tap to begin with.



This part ^ is difficult to understand. The back pressure "created" by the float switch can't be any more than the original pressure in the feed system, can it? In which case, wasn't the problem really a result of some flawed execution in that part of the plumbing? A simple fix?

Sorry I can't be much help, I hope someone chimes in with more experience with these systems. One question, if I may: Am I reading your pH correctly: 4???

If I connect the hose from the tap directly to the float valve in the barrel and switch it on, when the barrel is full and the float valve is closed, the water pressure will be too high and burst the hose out. I can't open an additional drain as the sump drain was specially created inside the sump cabinet when I renovated the room.

Why not just have tap water flow to the holding barrel by gravity, instead of a pump. In this way, water in pipes just sits when the float valve is closed (not enough excess pressure to cause a problem)
Pumping against a closed valve is always fraught with complications, but my guess is, using straight tap water (if even remotely hard) would be perfect for goldfish or Tanganykans, no need for the RO and remineralization.
So no need to pump to the holding barrel, if plumbed right, just normal house presure.

Water from my tap is pressurized already from my country's waterworks, it's not just gravity fed from the tap unfortunately. That's why tap water would burst the hose if stopped by the float valve. My water from tap is 7.0 - 7.6 and kH is low - so probably not suitable for Tanganyika cichlids straight from tap?
 
If I connect the hose from the tap directly to the float valve in the barrel and switch it on, when the barrel is full and the float valve is closed, the water pressure will be too high and burst the hose out.

What is the pressure of that incoming water from the mains?

I am on a well, so the water at my domestic faucets varies from 30 - 50 psi, depending upon when during the "pumping cycle" I draw it. I have a couple of float switches outside in stock tanks (actually used as stock tanks, not for fish :)) and they have no difficulty handling 50psi. They are fed with a flexible black plastic hose, apparently suitable for potable water, that is commonly available at farm supply stores. Sorry, I forget the name, and digging it up or worming my way into my crawlspace is the only way I can check (assuming that it is still visibly marked).

So...perhaps you need to investigate a different float switch and/or method of feeding it; something rated for the pressure you are facing? There's gotta be a way...

Edited to add: Or...you could rig it up so that the float switch, instead of directly operating a valve that opens/closes, instead operates an electric relay which could in turn open/close a remote solenoid-operated valve, which could be located anywhere that it is convenient to install on the plumbing. This would remove all pressure from the intake to the existing float switch, shutting the water off further upstream. Bit of a PITA to put together, but you do it once and then continue to enjoy the benefits permanently. This might still require a new float switch that is designed differently than your current one, something more along the lines of the switches that control domestic sump pumps.
 
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I have about 60-80psi. The float switch holds up alright, but it is the connection points where the hose fits onto the tap that will burst out over time due to the pressure, then the tap just spurts water all over the floor.
 
I have about 60-80psi. The float switch holds up alright, but it is the connection points where the hose fits onto the tap that will burst out over time due to the pressure, then the tap just spurts water all over the floor.

Okay, so that pressure is not at all out of the ordinary for municipal water supplies. If that pressure is damaging the hose leading to your RO filter, simply re-work that feed line into something robust enough to handle the pressure. I have numerous friends in the city who have a habit of leaving a simple garden hose connected to an outdoor faucet, with the faucet on full, sometimes all summer long! The cheap-o hose nozzle and the hose threaded connector never have a problem.

Or, plumb a permanent feed line directly to the RO filter, using PEX or whatever else is commonly available in your area. Or install a pressure-reducing valve at some point in your domestic plumbing, to reduce the pressure either to that appliance or to the entire house if desired.

This does not sound like an insurmountable difficulty; plenty of different ways to approach it.
 
Thanks, do you have an example of what a pressure reducing valve would look like? Not sure why the cheapo hose your friends use have no issues while mine will burst out the moment the float switch is shut and the pressure becomes high
 
One other solution I'm thinking of is to split up the buffer solution for tanganyika cichlids and dose them separately using a 4 head dosing pump. Based on the recipe for diy rift lake buffer, I would need to dose 1 tablespoon of Epsom salts, 1 teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate and 1 teaspoon of marine salt per 5 gallons of water. If I dose the 3 components separately I should be able to mix up 1 month of liquids at a time to dose, which would be acceptable for me
 
Thanks, do you have an example of what a pressure reducing valve would look like? Not sure why the cheapo hose your friends use have no issues while mine will burst out the moment the float switch is shut and the pressure becomes high

No, I have never needed one; my plumber friend suggested I might need one before realizing how low my pressure-tank levels were. I have a typical pressure tank, containing an air bladder, to feed my domestic water; less pressure than any municipal water.

Not sure why either. Do you not use a garden hose outside with a pistol-grip nozzle on it? Does it blow up every time you release the trigger and shut it off? Something seems amiss.
 
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