Altums?
- Thread starter jhutch
- Start date
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwangelfish&1178242784
this one is no shipping aquabid has them alot keep an eye out
this one is no shipping aquabid has them alot keep an eye out
aquabid would be a good start, but, just a heads up, i hear that these guys are even more sensitive than discus. good luck anyways
Connor0729;828744; said:aquabid would be a good start, but, just a heads up, i hear that these guys are even more sensitive than discus. good luck anyways
do u mean altums or angels?
angels are definately not more sensitive than discus! dicus arent even that sensitive if you give them good enough water quality! and the right parameters!
This a bad time to be looking for Altums because the collecting is impossible
during the Orinoco drainages rainey season.
They are available, in season, from Alberto, www.aquatechnics.net if you want Altums that have any chance of living.
In Canada the only place to get good Altums is from Oliver Lucanus, www.belowwater.com.
Altums are among the most difficult of all freshwater fish to keep properly.
They are more difficult than any discus by far and I specialize in breeding wild discus and raise domestic to pay for all the fish food.. It is imperative that they be given very large tanks and perfect water conditions. They do not compromise. They love Cardinal Tetras by the way.
If you are not prepared to maintain them in almost straight RO water at a pH of 4,5 to 5.5 filtered through peat and make 50% water changes twice a week you shoud try keeping Peruvian or Amazon Scalare. Note: The so-called Peruvian Altum and Rio Negro Altums are in fact, Pterophyllum scalare not P. altum. Both are far easier to keep and much better choices if you have not kept wild angels before.
Larry Waybright, member of TASG, The Angel Fish Study Group. www.finarama.com
This is where the braintrust of wild angelfish is at on-line
during the Orinoco drainages rainey season.
They are available, in season, from Alberto, www.aquatechnics.net if you want Altums that have any chance of living.
In Canada the only place to get good Altums is from Oliver Lucanus, www.belowwater.com.
Altums are among the most difficult of all freshwater fish to keep properly.
They are more difficult than any discus by far and I specialize in breeding wild discus and raise domestic to pay for all the fish food.. It is imperative that they be given very large tanks and perfect water conditions. They do not compromise. They love Cardinal Tetras by the way.
If you are not prepared to maintain them in almost straight RO water at a pH of 4,5 to 5.5 filtered through peat and make 50% water changes twice a week you shoud try keeping Peruvian or Amazon Scalare. Note: The so-called Peruvian Altum and Rio Negro Altums are in fact, Pterophyllum scalare not P. altum. Both are far easier to keep and much better choices if you have not kept wild angels before.
Larry Waybright, member of TASG, The Angel Fish Study Group. www.finarama.com
This is where the braintrust of wild angelfish is at on-line
Altums are hard to acclimate to tank conditions. However, once acclimated they are not that hard to keep at all. I don't use a single drop of R/O water in any of my tanks. I just use tap water supplied my the Miami-Dade Water department and treat it for Chlorine and air it out to reduce the PH. Out of the tap local water is Alkaline and over the PH chart but stabilizes at around 7.6 when aged.
I have two tanks of Altums. One tank has wild ones approaching 3 years while the other one has two year olds.
Pictures of both tanks are in the gallery thread.
Been to the Finarama web site and noticed their tendency to bash folks who deviates from the majorities' viewpoint of the use of RO water as a must.
I have two tanks of Altums. One tank has wild ones approaching 3 years while the other one has two year olds.
Pictures of both tanks are in the gallery thread.
Been to the Finarama web site and noticed their tendency to bash folks who deviates from the majorities' viewpoint of the use of RO water as a must.
JuanTamad;836564; said:
Hi Juan,
You have a point. I have a breeders mind set and I sometimes forget to consider that most aquarists keep their fish to enjoy rather than to breed.
I probably would have been more correct to have said that very low pH, conductivity, and warm clean water are the best way to keep P. altums if one one has hopes to breed them.
I know better, than to imply they can't be kept in less extreme water conditions. I have done that myself, and I should have been more specific in my post.
The real trick is to get healthy alums to begin with. The majority of the altums sold are in very poor condition and to have much hope of bringing them back from the brink of imminent death often does require the low pH, almost straight RO water and warm temps.
Once acclimated they are easier to keep but they really are far more demanding than P. scalare or P. dumerlii.
Breeding P. altum is a central goal of the TASG on www.finarama.com and admittedly there are some strong opinions on this topic. The present consensus built on an increasingly accurate understanding of P. altum and their biotopes does result in what seems like a bunch of " do it my way or hit the highway" sense of opnion. Both the hopes of captive breeding of P. altum and the Heckel discus are sometimes contentious subjects accompanied with emotions that run high. There isn't much middle of the road thinking as the camps are strongly divided between those who feel neither fish has been rarely bred to those who feel it is not that rare.
There is a lot of need for more documentation to support either point of view.
Most importantly and fundamentally, we just need to see more results from actually breeding them. At this time both fish are much harder to breed than the other species in their respective genera.
Larry Waybright
Larry Waybright
apistomaster;837026; said:
Thanks for the clarification Larry.
You are right about Altums harder to acclimate than Dumerellis/Leopoldis and Scalares.
But once acclimated they can be cared for the same way. I have all three. At one time I had all three kinds in the same tank. It was ok for a while until the Leopoldis/Dumerelli started getting territorial. I had to relocate the Scalares to a separate tank as they were getting beat up. The Altums, because of their size can fend off the aggressive fish.
Best wishes to you and the other aficionados at Finarama, hope to hear successful breeding of the Altum that everybody can embrace as authentic.
Another trick for restoring the health of Altums received in poor condition is to use lots of aeration. Abundance of oxygen does wonders for their recovery especially if you are keeping them at very high temps.
I think that we have accepted as fact that altums need water kept with a high redox potential as part of any breeding protocol.
apistomaster;838050; said:
...and yet you did not even mention it..makes some wonder how expert are the opinions supported by well established names really are.
One would think that after several years of colllaboration of many minds on breeding Altums and or Heckels that success will now be a well recorded fact....and yet from what I could gleam from the posts there even the acclimation of newly imported Altums is still a mystery and far away from being resolved...maybe the fish are better off being left were they are being collected. Let them do their breeding thing and just collect some of the fries for grow out in tanks. That's what I do for monster sized Cichlas. Wigglers are much easier to ship and acclimate to tank conditions.