ammonia trouble in Betta tank

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Taffy1

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Dec 28, 2012
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Canada
Hi all,

I'm new to this forum, but not at all new to fish keeping.

Okay, I know this is stupid but I need help with trying to figure out how to cycle a 5 gallon tank with one Male Betta!

I have been dealing with fish for over 20 years and I am very familiar with the cycling process. I know what to watch for in the water levels and I know how long it should take on average. I have never run into this trouble before. I am frustrated beyond words.
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I have had Bettas in this tank in the past several times. Generally it is seeded from an established tank, running problem free. Using this method, I have at most experienced a mini cycle which was over within a week. This time I am not so lucky. It was seeded using the filter media from the established tank as well as a relatively small plant.

I check the water levels every day and always the ammonia is at least 0.25. Thus most often I do a water change every day. If I do happen to skip a day, the ammonia levels will spike to at least 0.5. I have tried putting the little white ammonia chips in the filter, but that makes no difference either. This has been going on for three months. Nitrates and nitrites have always been zero. I just cannot get to that part of the cycle without posing risk to the fish.

The other day in desperation, I decided to start completely fresh. Since I can never get past day one of the cycle, I had nothing to lose. I completely cleaned out the filter and rinsed out the media. I actually got rid of the old gravel and bought new gravel ( I had been wanting to do that anyway). Cleaned the tank and started from scratch. But like I said I was never past day one of the cycle anyway so it did not matter.

Oh, and this fish is blind; and feeding is a nightmare. So, I have been taking him out of the tank, into a Betta jar for feedings. So there has never been any food in this tank. (I had even cleaned out his betta jar completely).

Because of the new gravel, I kept him in his better jar the other night; floating in the tank. (Tank is heated to about 77 or 78°). That morning I checked everything out, and as expected the ammonia in the tank was about 0. BUT the ammonia in the jar was 1.0!!! The water in the jar appeared to be spotless. The was no poop or dirt of any kind that I could see. I expected some ammonia, but not like that!

Now I realize this jar is very small, so I did expect some ammonia. But I really did not expect that huge of a spike overnight, especially since it appeared spotless? I am wondering if it is possible that there is some sort of problem with this fish that he seems to create more ammonia than pretty much any other fish on the planet
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Please do not try to explain the cycling process, or how long it *can* take ... But if anyone has any suggestions as to how I can rectify this, and stop having to do a water change daily ... 3 months of this is more than enough!

BTW, the tap water has been tested several times in the past 3 months; and it is always 0. I have considered getting a water conditioner that would help by converting ammonia to less toxic ammonium; but then it would be difficult to know how much of the toxic ammonia I have...since clearly, the ammonia will rise significantly every day. So for now, I'm just using the basic water conditioner.

My other tanks all cycled totally fine, no problems at all.
 
But in order to let the tank cycle, you need to have ammonia. Dose with Prime, it will bind the ammonia up.
 
But like I said, if I did use Prime...that would just take care of any ammonia there at the time. The following day, there would be more. So, it would be difficult to know what was safe ammonium, and which was toxic.

Yes, Ideally, the ammonia levels should be at 0...that was the ultimate goal! But with this particular fish, I'd have to do a water change 3 times per day to maintain 0 ammonia! It seems to generate very quickly.

I'm getting to the point that I am tempted to leave him in there for 2 to 3 days without a water change; causing the ammonia level spike. Then take him out into the betta jar (where I can easily change the water several times per day as needed). Leave the tank to complete the cycle. on it's own...perhaps taking some more media from one of the other established tanks (yet again). Once the cycle is completed in the tank, it would be interesting to see if it is possible to maintain it. But somehow I think that there is something not right with this fish, that is causing him to generate ammonia - even though he's not a huge pooper.

I've even thought of moving him to the 55g community tank - which is large enough to handle his ammonia generating abilities... <lol> But, I didn't really want to move him there...where he doesn't know the environment well enough, and could not see if someone were to go and pick on him. Also, it would be much harder to catch him when it comes time to feeding ... he'd still have to be separated for feedings, as he'd be at a huge disadvantage.
 
Maybe you could separate him to a breeder box in the 55? Very hard to keep the parameters stable in a 5 gallon tank.
 
Yes, that's true...I could use a breeder box in the 55g. Might do that if I end up choosing to continue cycling the 5g without him.

I disagree about cycling a 5g though. Normally, it is VERY easy, if there is just the one fish. Heck, I've even had two fish in there before without any trouble with the cycling process. I am not sure why this fish is different, but he just seem to be a swimming ammonia bag in a Betta's body! :roll:
 
Hmm I agree that messing with it too much might be the issue, but I also want to speculate about water conditioners for a moment.

Since we know that prime and other water conditioners temporarily bind ammonia (as stated on their website), is it possible that they could temporarily bind the amine components of chloramines? Thereby releasing them at a later date and producing a positive reading? I'd be curious to see if your tap water has 0 ammonia after it's been treated with a water conditioner. And maybe a week and two weeks after that to see if bound amines/ammonia has been released in the absence of nitrifying bacteria. If so, then the daily water changes could be to blame!

Or I could be wrong. Maybe I'll run this experiment someday...
 
Pomatomus said:
Hmm I agree that messing with it too much might be the issue, but I also want to speculate about water conditioners for a moment.

Since we know that prime and other water conditioners temporarily bind ammonia (as stated on their website), is it possible that they could temporarily bind the amine components of chloramines? Thereby releasing them at a later date and producing a positive reading? I'd be curious to see if your tap water has 0 ammonia after it's been treated with a water conditioner. And maybe a week and two weeks after that to see if bound amines/ammonia has been released in the absence of nitrifying bacteria. If so, then the daily water changes could be to blame!

Or I could be wrong. Maybe I'll run this experiment someday...
Click to expand...

I would love to be able to mess with it a lot less.... But that would not be without risk.

i do not have any prime, but next time I see some at another store, I'll pick some up. Stores in town here do not sell it, unfortunately! I think we should petition Walmat to start selling it! <lol>

I do know that tap water with my water conditioner left overnight will still produce 0 ammonia.

ammonia levels now are at 0.25. I opted not to change the water this time. I will let the levels rise a bit higher, over the next day or two; then take him out and see if we can allow the cycle to go further. Without the fish there, I can leave it without posing risk.

is there any possibility at all that the test kit is over sensitive, showing higher levels? I think it can accurately report 0' as my tap water shows 0, as do the other tanks. This is using the API NH3/NH4 (liquid) test kit. Now, when I pulled out the old Nutrafin master test kit, it reports 0 ammonia. Now, I have a feeling that this latter test kit is too old, and perhaps the reagent bottle is more neutral, thus reporting much lower values ... But part of me is wishing this was the more accurate of the two <g>
 
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