Amphilophus citrinellus vs. Amphilophus labiatus

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Vitaliy

Vitaliy

Feeder Fish
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Apr 18, 2005
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Why are Red Devils and Midas are considered to be two different types of fish?

They live in the same rivers and lakes, they feed on the same thing, they are identical (there is no way people can accurately ID one from another, the only way is to buy from a reputable breeder who is suppose to know the difference and hope that you got what you asked for - stuff like V mouth, or one is more bulkier than another appears to be not true). Etc.
 
They are most definetly two differenat species of fish. And within those species you will find small variations (lip structure & color being the most prominent). This has become a real problem for hobbyists. The majority of "Red Devils" sold at fish stores are mutts produced or possibly produced by a mix of both species. As for "how to know"..good luck. I have seen the mutts entered in various fish shows..up to and including this past ACA convention. It can be difficult to tell as adults (sometimes) and almost impossible to tell when juveniles. I really hate the common names for this reason. On the other hand, maybe calling them by their proper scientific name and GETTING one of the mutts would be worse. Maybe the common name for the mutts shoud be Red Dirtballs. lol
 
They look very differnt and the red devil comes from a different lake as opposed to the midas wider range. I'm assuming RDs cevoloved from midas stock.
 
nomadofthehills said:
They look very differnt and the red devil comes from a different lake as opposed to the midas wider range. I'm assuming RDs cevoloved from midas stock.
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Look very different? Which one is which?

Amphilophus labiatus is from "Atlantic slope of Nicaragua, in Lakes Nicaragua and Managua", and Amphilophus citrinellus is from " Atlantic slope of Nicaragua and Costa Rica (San Juan River drainage, including Lakes Nicaragua, Managua, Masaya and Apoyo)"... not very different if you ask me.

Amphilophus labiatus2.jpg

Amphilophus labiatus3.jpg

amphilophus_citrinellus.jpg
 
Vitaliy said:
Look very different? Which one is which?

Amphilophus labiatus is from "Atlantic slope of Nicaragua, in Lakes Nicaragua and Managua", and Amphilophus citrinellus is from " Atlantic slope of Nicaragua and Costa Rica (San Juan River drainage, including Lakes Nicaragua, Managua, Masaya and Apoyo)"... not very different if you ask me.
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Red Devils have those big lips right? and midas dont.. thats the difference i see in them
 
Amphilophus Labiatum have a more compact body. The Labiatus refers to lips. The lips evolved that way as a way to extract food from tight crevices. However the majority of the Labiatum you see in the hobby dont have the larger lips. I have heard that wild caught Labiatus will actually "lose" some of the lip after being in the tank for a while.

Two from Jeff Rapp's Site.

labiatus3.jpg


labiatus2.jpg


The Amphilophus Citrinellum has a much higer body and rounded head. I honestly am not up on which is called what. I've heard people refer to their Citrinellum as Red Devil and Midas. I know that Midas is the common name for A. Citrinellum...but the unfortunate thing is that a lot don't.
Really good article on Amphilophus complex [URL="http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=106"]http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=106[/URL]
 
Seems like this confusion never ends, and rightfully so. Unless you have a pure A. Labiatus and a pure A. Citrinellus side by side, it's going to be very difficult for most to tell the difference. Or in other words what I'm trying to say is telling the difference between a midas and the common hybrids sold under the name "Red Devil" can be very tough since most of these "Mutts" have more Citrinellus in them to begin with...or atleast that's the way I see it out here in California.

I just recently bought a Male Midas from Jeff Rapps and to be honest with you guys, the physical similiarities between my pure bred Midas and all the other LFS Hybrid "Red Devils" I've own are few and far between imo. Well except for the fact that the hybrids don't get the huge nuchal humps like the pure Midas do.

When someone says they have a red devil, the first thing I ask is "What Kind? A. Citrinellus or A. Labiatus?" More then likely they are refering to mutts anyhow. And that's not a bad thing by any means. They arn't exactly a frankenstien fish like those parrot cichlids are! LOL! :D
 
well, when the species were originally discovered, studied and eventually described, such small details as scale counts, finray counts, exact collection locations as well as lots of other information had to have been considered, so imo there must have been enough differences to describe them as two different species. there are definitely physical differences in body structure between the 2 species (when you can see pure specimens of each). now, if labiatus was more common in one type of area while citrinellum was more common in another type of area, then I suppose the argument could be made that they were different locale variants of the same species that have adapted to their particular environment. however if both species are found in the same locations/types of environment then that would lead me to believe that they are in fact two distinct species. the link in Aquamojo's last post is a very good read in regards to teh red devil complex. :character0004:
 
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