Anyone ever deal with Septicemia???

[Whiteboi_J]

Been lurking for a few months now and decided to finally post.

Just got into the hobby a few months ago w/ a 20g Octagon community tank. I've only killed 3 fish, all the first week. Colombian Tetra fin nipped 2 of my Cardinals, then one morning he mysteriously was dead. lol. Since then no problems til this week. Came home from work and saw the male Balloon Molly was dead and looked like it had hint of red behind it's fins. Since i did a WC on Tuesday n didn't check parameters afterward, i thought maybe that was the culprit. Nope, Nitrites, Nitrates, Ammonia were all fine.

Then an hour or so later, i noticed some red spots on my female molly. Did some googling and self diagnosed her with Septicemia. Basically a blood disease that causes hemorrhaging and eventually internal organs to fail.

Before i found out it was probably that, I added some salt to the tank, but i doubt that will help with a blood born disease.

Anyone else experience this? Any cures or possible remedies, or is she gonna eventually die?

Only the Mollies got it, and i read it might not spread and wreck my tank, so i figured it's cause the male and female molly made sweet love and gave each other fish aids. lawl.

 

[Zander_The_RBP]

First off welcome to MFK !

For your concerns: i honestly don't think your fish has septicemia as external hemorrhaging is a very common symptom of ammonia burns/poisoning.

The simplest solution is usualy the correct one this is especialy true in fish keeping where a basic parameter out of whack will cause more deaths than a more complex problem such as an infection, simply becuase it is much easier to have happen.

Until we get actual Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate values (Fine is not a number) we can't help much if these indeed are "fine" we can look into a more complicated situation such as an infection.


3 deaths is 3 too many and sudden unexplained deaths are usualy the result of a ammonia/nitrite problem.


septicemia is not a very common fish ailment and usualy requires the fish to have some sort of open wound that didnt heal properly to allow the bacteria into the blood stream.


Good luck

 

[kevinfleming21]

I work in the medical field as a case manager, very familiar with septicemia....however, not familiar with it being related to fish. As stated above, this is most likely some form of ammonia burn IMO.

 

[Heathd]

I dont think this is ammonia related, it could have been an issue before the w/c and obviously, his numbers are going to be low due to the recent change.

The reason why I dont think this is ammonia related is because he still has cardinals in his tank and they are a much more delicate fish than a molly. Some people with excellent filtration and water quality fail to keep cardinals alive for more then a month or so.

 

[Whiteboi_J]

First off welcome to MFK !

For your concerns: i honestly don't think your fish has septicemia as external hemorrhaging is a very common symptom of ammonia burns/poisoning.

The simplest solution is usualy the correct one this is especialy true in fish keeping where a basic parameter out of whack will cause more deaths than a more complex problem such as an infection, simply becuase it is much easier to have happen.

Until we get actual Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate values (Fine is not a number) we can't help much if these indeed are "fine" we can look into a more complicated situation such as an infection.


3 deaths is 3 too many and sudden unexplained deaths are usualy the result of a ammonia/nitrite problem.


septicemia is not a very common fish ailment and usualy requires the fish to have some sort of open wound that didnt heal properly to allow the bacteria into the blood stream.


Good luck

Zander - till i can figure out how to quote each comment seperately, i'll just quote the whole thing. lol. took me a while but i attached pics at bottom of post.

1. I don't think it's ammonia poisoning cause my Card's would've taken the dive first....I've read mollies are pretty hardy, and that if ur careful u can even successfully put them in a salt

2. 24 hours after WC: PH - 7.4, Ammonia - .25 ppm, Nitrites - 0 ppm, Nitrates - 5.0 ppm. I know some people are gonna blast me that my tank wasn't properly cycled w/ trace ammounts of Ammonia, but i did put fish in first day i started brand new tank....rookie mistake i admit but tank been running for 3-4 months now.

3. lol oh ya, forgot about 2 pleco's i've lost 2. one didn't eat, and the other got a fungus that i didn't treat till it was too late but it's been 2-3 months since i've lost any fish

4. Ya i read Septicemia is very rare, but that's the only thing that i could find on google about red spots appearing on fish....also just looked and it looks like the molly's eyes are starting to buldge

 

[Zander_The_RBP]

i don't know about you but that .25 ppm ammonia is probably the source of your problems the water change has probably brought it down but you need to be doing more frequent water changes till it's at 0 and staying there.



Ammonia burns / poisoning cause all the symptoms you are listing including eye buldging and red spots on fish (those are the burns) the eye bulging is from irritation from the ammonia.


Just becuase one fish isn't reacting to it dosen't exclude the possibility that it's ammonia poisoning especial considering you have the evidence right infront of you. Some fish just react to things in different ways. Mollies (especialy balloon mollies) are so inbred that they are probably more vulnerable to the ammonia than even sensitive cardinal tetras. The fact that they can go from salt to fresh and back again dosen't make them hardy at all it just means they are very adaptable they naturaly live in brackish water and are used to alot of variability in salinity which is why they can go in salt or freshwater (but in my opinion they do better in slightly brackish water). Cardinal tetras arn't really any more sensitive to ammonia than any other fish the wild ones are however very sensitive to pH, but i doubt you have wild caught ones anyway.


it's a myth that tetra's are hard to keep alive.


if it was true that they are very sesnitive they would've been the first to become ill with this disease if it's been killing everything else.

 

[Whiteboi_J]

i don't know about you but that .25 ppm ammonia is probably the source of your problems the water change has probably brought it down but you need to be doing more frequent water changes till it's at 0 and staying there.

I do 50% WC every 7-10 days, which i'm probably going to drop down to 25% cause i'm thinking that's the main cause of stress in my Colombian's (when normal they have silver bodies and bright red tails...for days after WC their tails are pale)

And before the WC on Tuesday (was gonna wait till Thursday) i checked the parameters (wasn't going to do WC that day but changed my mind an hour after checking) and Ammonia was about .25 ppm. I've had .50 ppm after a 50% WC and never seen any Ammonia burns before.

And doing some research, don't Ammonia burns mostly show up on fins? these are all on his forehead......thanks for educating me on Ammonia burns though, never heard of it before.

 

[Zander_The_RBP]

I do 50% WC every 7-10 days, which i'm probably going to drop down to 25% cause i'm thinking that's the main cause of stress in my Colombian's (when normal they have silver bodies and bright red tails...for days after WC their tails are pale)

And before the WC on Tuesday (was gonna wait till Thursday) i checked the parameters (wasn't going to do WC that day but changed my mind an hour after checking) and Ammonia was about .25 ppm. I've had .50 ppm after a 50% WC and never seen any Ammonia burns before.

And doing some research, don't Ammonia burns mostly show up on fins? these are all on his forehead......thanks for educating me on Ammonia burns though, never heard of it before.

ammonia burns usualy do show up on the fins and especialy the gills (which often go a bright red colour) but i have seen them everywhere including on the head and tail.