Aquatic Foods & Blackworm Co. - can their ingredient pellet lists be trusted?

[thebiggerthebetter]

What do you guys think of this EBay store seller? Their ingredient lists on many pellets on the surface appear better, more varied, more valuable than say even those of the NLS.

NLS always features the 3rd ingredient as whole wheat flour (I assume the binder in the pellets) while this seller (which reworks, combines, and repackages brand name fish feeds) lists things that can be assumed to be a binder on the 5th to 10th place.

I find it too good to believe. Am I wrong? ( RD. ?)

For instance: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-8-mm-Ult...19:m:m9IDNza8Rr9lSEDMndQOiWw&var=532494955007

$115 for 10 lbs, free shipping
1.8mm SINKING
Premium Ultra ​

Intense Coloring Pellets​

Ingredients: Fish Meal, Extra Equal amounts of Krill, Plankton, Shrimp Meal, Brine Shrimp, Red Shrimp. Astaxanthin (to bring out the colors) Spirulina, Dried Algae, Dried Kelp, Wheat Flour, Soy Meal Brewer’s Yeast Palm Oil-Fish Oil-Lecithin-HUFA oil, Various Multi Vitamins & Multi Minerals.
Apx. Analysis: Protein 40-45%, Fat 4-5%, Fiber 4-6%, Moisture 8-10%

Floating & Sinking Blackworm Pellets with Color Enhancers & Vitamins. Apx 3 mm | eBay

Aquatic Foods & Blackworm Co. California Blackworm Pellets. We are Aquatic Foods & Blackworm Co. Floating & Sinking. with Color Enhancers & Vitamins. Protein 50-55 % Fat 4-5%.

www.ebay.com

$37 for 2.5 lbs, free shipping

3mm Floating & Sinking Premium ​

California Blackworm Pellets
with Color Enhancers & Vitamins​

Combined Ingredients: Fish Meal, California Blackworms, Equal amounts of Krill, Plankton, Shrimp Meal, Brine Shrimp, Red Shrimp. Spirulina, Dried Algae, Dried Kelp, Natural Astaxanthin (to bring out the colors) Wheat Flour, Soy Meal Brewer’s Yeast Palm Oil-Fish Oil-Lecithin-HUFA oil, Various Multi Vitamins & Multi Minerals.
Apx. Analysis: Protein 50-55%, Fat 4-5%, Fiber 4-6% Moisture 8-10%

​

44-lb Green Gro & Color Enhancing Floating Pellets Koi & Pond Food. Apx 6mm | eBay

Free Koi Kandy, Krill & Silkworm Sample Bag Included. Floating Pellets. Green Gro & Color Enhancing. Combined Apx. Spirulina Green Gro Pellet Ingredients Color Enhancing Pellet Ingredients Fat: 3.5-5%.

www.ebay.com

$150 for 44 lbs, $12 shipping
6mm-1/4" Floating
Green Gro & Color Enhancing Pellets
For Large Fish, Koi & Pond Fish
Great for large Cichlids, Catfish, Pacu and More.​

Ingredients: Fish meal, Spirulina, Krill, Shrimp meal, Brine Shrimp, deep-sea fish oil, yeast meal, rose algae, astaxanthin, astacin, wheat germ, stable multi-vitamins, multi-minerals,etc.
Apx Analysis: Protein:35% Fat:5% Fiber:3% Ash:13% Calcium:2% Lysine:0.5% NaCl:3% Moisture:10%

 

[RD.]

Ingredients: Fish Meal, Extra Equal amounts of Krill, Plankton, Shrimp Meal, Brine Shrimp, Red Shrimp. Astaxanthin (to bring out the colors) Spirulina, Dried Algae, Dried Kelp, Wheat Flour, Soy Meal Brewer’s Yeast Palm Oil-Fish Oil-Lecithin-HUFA oil, Various Multi Vitamins & Multi Minerals.
Apx. Analysis: Protein 40-45%, Fat 4-5%, Fiber 4-6%, Moisture 8-10%

Viktor, it's all in the presentation amigo. 1st ingredient - Fish Meal. 2nd ingredient - a mix of krill, plankton, shrimp, and some astaxanthin for additional red enhancement. Basically a seafood blend.
3rd ingredient - pretty much algae meal, at the least a blend of algae, consisting of spirulina, kelp, and I guess an unknown form of dried algae? 4th ingredient - wheat flour. 5th ingredient soy meal. after that it's all down hill with the typical oil, vitamins & minerals. With all that seafood, why the need for soy meal? Soy meal is only added for one reason - to boost crude protein values. In my books soy is No Bueno, and always sends up a red flag for me.

If you add up both forms of flour, would they surpass the amount of algae in this formula? Hmmm, who knows?

Dennis Crews from Omega made this approach famous years ago, by combining several different seafood ingredients altogether, then listing them individually, along with some smoke & mirrors and careful label listing language, and most folks believed that his food was 90% fresh fish from Alaska. They didn't notice the double dose of wheat flour, and wheat gluten that was buried far down the blurry fish slurry list of ingredients. It was a short list, created to look long, and it worked. His background before setting out on his own was marketing director, for I believe Tetra.

And of course this doesn't even begin to dissect the quality of the various raw ingredients, that can all vary greatly in both quality, and cost.

Not judging the quality of any of this food, I have no personal experience with any of it, just sayin ......

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

Thank you so much, Sensei! I see it better now.

No SOY in the 44-lb product, or "omitted out of abundance of caution"? I note the protein is only 35%, so maybe they are truthful here that there is indeed no soy?

Gotta hate the cunning marketing people. Selling their souls to the devil and their conscience for profits and hurting us and our pets.

* * *

This repackager, reworker, and seller has HUNDREDS of offerings on EBay and a stellar customer feedback. The ingredient lists of some products sound great-to-phenomenal on the surface and are only around $4 per pound and available in bulk, just like that 44 lbs bag above with the big bad SOY suspiciously MIA... also says wheat germ, not wheat flour... germ makes it kinda sound alive and meaty, like a worm or insect larvae...

Does anyone buy from them? If so, have you looked into what they claim in a fashion similar to RD's analysis above? It seems to me they set out to veil the truth in advertising as much as possible in the Dennis Crews infamous fashion while trying not to expose themselves to an outright class action lawsuit for false and misleading advertising...

 

[Backfromthedead]

Im a big supporter. I like their pellet blends and my fish certainly do as well. Their pellets always seem a bit "fresher" than ive experienced compared to most off the shelf brands. Always quick shipping too.

I do agree the ingredient lists can be ambiguous and therefore suspicious. When you get a pellet blend the list is even more confusing because they simply list all the ingredients in all of the pellets without distinction.

But on the whole ive seen healthy appetite and growth from my fish when feeding their stuff.

 

[RD.]

Viktor - if I was in your shoes, I would reach out to some manufacturers/mills, and see what they can offer for bulk purchases, such as you are looking at. Basically cut out the middle man, and go directly through the mill that is producing the feed. If it is worth their effort, I would think that you may be able to strike up a deal. Just list off some of the basic ingredients that you are looking for in the feed, along with protein/fat levels. You don't want a trout/salmon chow with 45% protein & 25% crude fat content, but at the same time you don't want 100 lb bags full of corn & soy.

 

[MrsE88]

I buy their brand off amazon. I get the 17 blend if memory serves me right.
My fish love it and it to me it seems good. I like that I can get a 2lb bag so it last a while.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

Viktor - if I was in your shoes, I would reach out to some manufacturers/mills, and see what they can offer for bulk purchases, such as you are looking at. Basically cut out the middle man, and go directly through the mill that is producing the feed. If it is worth their effort, I would think that you may be able to strike up a deal. Just list off some of the basic ingredients that you are looking for in the feed, along with protein/fat levels. You don't want a trout/salmon chow with 45% protein & 25% crude fat content, but at the same time you don't want 100 lb bags full of corn & soy.

Thank you as always, Neil!

I have just switched to all NLS from my cheap $1/lb aquaculture-geared Zeigler. I've come 180 degrees to realize the savings are really, really not worth it. Will make up a separate thread on it soon where I suggest we could discuss more in depth. Meanwhile though, I am buying NLS 2.2 kilogram pails off Ebay and Amazon at $50-$65 per pail.

This has upped my feed bill by about 5 times (10x more expensive feed but I can use 2x less of it, hence, 5x).

I need quick and dirty guidance what to buy and where.

I bought NLS from this EBay seller as they sell straight up brands as well and they sent me samples and this led me to look at their product line. Surely $4/lb beats NLS's $10-$13/lb on the surface but now I want only one of the best for my fish, hence the inquiries.

 

[RD.]

Again, if it was me, in your shoes, I would supplement with NLS, but not feed it as the main staple. For your needs it is simply too costly over the long haul, and for freshwater fish, IMO, not necessary. Freshwater fish are easy to keep alive, and even thriving, in captivity, on middle of the road foods. Quite a different story for many of the more delicate marine species - but that's not what you keep. It is a great food for sure, which is why I think that you could get away with feeding it a few times a week, in between the farm feed that you are using. Even every other day would help keep costs down. And nutrient wise, I think that your fish would be just fine.

And if Zeigler feed isn't doing it for you, reach out to some of the other mills, and see what is currently available. Skretting is another option that you might want to consider? https://www.skretting.com/en-US/products/
They have species specific diets - the koi, catfish, tilapia diets may interest you?

 

[FINWIN]

My fish have done well with a combo of Hakari and Aquatic Foods. Everything I've received from AF is super fresh in the package and palatable, the fish gobble it up.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

RD. at one point in the past you told me you would not feed the Zeigler pellets (the ingredient of which we were discussing in that thread) even if they were free. They are what you called soy and corn. And we were talking f/w fish.

I understand your point that my volumes are higher than yours. Over the last year, I have just got really tired of losing prised huge specimen of our collection to what on many occasions I could only ascribe to poor nutrition.

We better save this for my next thread, which is coming.