Argentae and tank mates

[MarvGT]

I've been growing out an argentae in a 4 foot tank along with green terrors and a convict. I'm looking to upgrade to a
6 foot tank which is roughly 150G and my question is will the Argentae get on with his current tank mates in the larger tank for the next couple of years?

Up until recently the argentae has been sub dominant to my 6 inch Male GT but now they are of similar size it seems like the balance of power has swung in favour of the Argentae. Nothing too violent but I have noticed there have been the odd stand off between each other and yesterday for the first time the Argentae was chasing the GT.

This only happens when lights are out and normally they are happy to co-exist peacefully together, often swimming side by side. I understand its pretty normal cichlid behaviour but knowing the reputation of an argentae I am worried that I might come home to find my GT murdered.

Also, the ultimate aim in the next 2 years when I have the space is to integrate them and some of m other cichlid tanks into and 8 foot 210 gallon so really just asking if for next couple of years the added space a 150gallon tank can offer is going to be enough for them to get along.

Cheers

 

[duanes]

Your argentea is from my experience, exhibiting typical argentea behavior, I have found at 6" they, (especially males) become hyper territorial, and start to kill any other cichlids, or fish that resemble cichlids, in all but the largest of tanks.
I have never been able to keep a mature argentea in a 150 gal with other cichlids, though tetras or live bearers were ignored.

 

[MarvGT]

Thank you Duanes, your input is always appreciated.

So, from your experience trying to integrate the argentae into a community 150g tank is pointless or worth a try? I could play close attention like have have done in the grow out tank and if trouble continues I could keep him in a tank on his own and maybe try again further down the line with a 210g when i have the room. Or would you say a 210g 8 foot tank is still too small?

Im not sure on the sex of my Argentae I could provide pictures if this would make a difference to your answer.

Thanks for your help

 

[duanes]

Females tend to have more black markings.
Below is a male, the body is almost devoid of markings, and fins quite pointed.

All Vieja seem to me to be ultra territorial, which may have to with their tendency toward vegetarianism, and need to protect recourses just as many Tropheus and other primarily vegetarian Africans, and damsel fish do on a reef.
I think of territory in this way.
At 6", males are at the onset of sexual maturity, and much like deer during a rut season.
Eliminating all competition for food resources, mates and spawning territory are paramount.
In nature, competition is simply driven off, in a tank, there is no where to go.
Most medium size rutting cichlids seem to able to defend/require a space of about 4ft, by 4 ft square, and will defend it to the death. If depth is 2ft, that's almost 250 gallons, but I think its the square area, that is most important, not gallons.
I have watched 8" JDs defend that size area in nature at a depth of anywhere from 2 to 4 ft.
A while back I had 5 adult Paratilapia in a 6ft tank, until the male started killing others.
I was able to only save 2, and put that remaining pair in a 6ft X 4ft kiddy pool, only a little over 1 ft deep, aggression stopped once the female was able to escape that size area.

 

[jaws7777]

I have a 3.5 inch argentea and was also thinking of upgrading and adding a tankmate or two but even at 2 ish inches he was rough on the other grow outs who had to be removed. Duanes and others have also given me the same advice (they dont play well) am not gonna go through the trouble of attempting it and am going to keep him as a wet pet with his current tankmates (gold nugget pleco, striped raph, and tiger barbs) will probably give him a 75/90 gal and lose the barbs when he gets a little bigger

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[ragin_cajun]

I'm surprised you've gotten this far in a 4 foot tank without incident. A 150 MIGHT help for a little while, but it might not. I'd separate em now, especially if tbe GT is a nice male. Both these fish grow slow, takes time to get a nice one.

Problem is.. Argentea don't give much warning like other Vieja do. Mine don't do much flaring, lip locking, etc. Mine act very peaceful, then go nuts outta tbe blue.

If yours is acting up at night, you should be worried. I had an Argentea in a 75 with a Bredohri and a Zonatus. The Breidohri was the king. The Argentea was smallest, but they left it alone. I really didn't want to lose tbe Breidohri, very Nice male, getting about 6 inches.

I woke up one morning, the Breidohri was totally scaled, and the Zonatus was glued to the top back corner of the tank terrified. Argentea was 4 inches long. No warning.

I keep Argentea only with bigger fish in a 540 gallon.


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[MarvGT]

Cheers guys for your help.

This is the Argentae in question. I have removed my largest GT that the problems were occurring to. By what Duanes was saying the A. looks to be a female. The dark markings displayed are more noticeable in this picture then normal and seems to display more when trying to assert dominance.

So based on what your advice has been I'm going to keep the Argentae solo for now and try and upgrade her(?) to a bigger tank in the near future and move my other cichlids into the 150.

Stock would be 2 male GT's 3 female GT's all ranging in size from 2-6inches. A convict, (in shot), a texas cichlid (3inches) and some non-cichlid differs. In quarantine I also have a wild caught green severum at about 2inches and wasn't going to integrate it into the same tank as the A. due to the aggression but as the A. is out of the picture would the Severum be able to handle going into the tank with the above tank mates?


Cheers

 

[duanes]

MarvGT, the dark markings, more rounded fin tips, and less square profile, all together do suggest female to me.
This could make for a less volatile argentea, but I think your idea as a solo fish is probably the best way to go. If you do decide to try her in a community situation later, be sure to establish all other fish first, other wise she will take the entire tank as her territory.
As a general rule, I find most of the South American cichlids hailing from east of the Andes to be much more docile and community oriented, than Central and North American cichlids. To me the further north you go, the higher the aggression potential. None of the more northerly species I've kept such as beani, any of the labridens group, or island genus, Nandopsis, have done well in a community situation.

 

[tiger15]

I currently have several species of Vieja including Synspillum, Bifas, Fenestratus, Melanuras, all single adult males in a 125 and show no aggression to one another. So I don't find Vieja as a species ultra aggressive because they are vegetarian like Mbuna. I can't speak for Argenteas, Zornatus or other Viejas I haven't kept. I currently have a GT and a Bifas in a 75g, both 6 inch. The GT have been the top fish for a long time, but I see that the Bifas is catching up in size and starting to challenge him. Fish behavior changes abruptly as they become mature. He locked jaw with the GT a few times but withdrawn, and it looks like it's just a matter of time the pecking order will reverse. I have to watch that day carefully, which is a dangerous time for the GT whenever pecking order is shifted.

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