Automatic Drip System - Sump Drain Planning

[SonsOfLeda]

Hey everyone!

I'm in the process of designing my new 300 gallon's filtration (custom designed wet/dry sump) and would like to incorporate an automatic water changing system. My aim is right around 3GPH for a water change rate of about 20% per day. Since I will have to pump the waste water out of the sump (drain will be uphill, so gravity is not an option), I have come up with a couple of viable options:

1) Install a dual action float valve which turns the drain pump on and then back off again at separate set levels (allowing the water level in the sump to rise/fall continuously = less frequent, longer periods of pump operation)

2) Install a single action float valve which turns the pump on when the water reaches a set point and then back off again when it drains below that same point (creating a constant sump level = more frequent bursts of pump operation)

I know that it's pretty easily doable either way, but I'm wondering about the integrity of the pump under the conditions of each situation. In my mind I'm comparing it to a car, with continual starting/stopping being harder on the engine than letting it run for longer between starts/stops.

Is there really any difference between these two options (besides plumbing), or am I just over thinking things? Are there any other options that I've overlooked here?

Thanks for your input in advance!

- Eric

 

[dogofwar]

How about just drilling a drain hole / drain line a few inches higher than regular water level in your sump? Gravity is more reliable than electricity. I'd add a second one just in case something plugs the drain.

 

[Dr Joe]

How about just drilling a drain hole / drain line a few inches higher than regular water level in your sump? Gravity is more reliable than electricity. I'd add a second one just in case something plugs the drain.

And that helps this "(drain will be uphill, so gravity is not an option)" how?

Dr Joe

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[Dr Joe]

Is this in the house or basement?

I vote #1, just make the on/off time (hi/low) swing as long as possible using the largest sump possible.

Use a check valve on the drain pipe and account for head pressure for your drain pump selection.

Dr Joe

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[LiquidWare]

option #3 :
If available drain is between top water level of aquarium return line, Use a 'T' from the main return line and put your dripper on that line and use a float valve in the sump to keep your water level constant.

 

[CHOMPERS]

Ball type float switches allow their activation levels to be adjusted simply by how much cord is payed out and where the mounting point is.

The car annalogy is an 'apples to oranges' comparison; in this case it does not hold. I second Dr. Joe's statement that a wide water level range will serve you better. Additionally, the check valve is needed so that the water that has been pumped out does not re-enter the sump.

 

[CHOMPERS]

Here is my pump station. It is detailed in this thread starting at post #5:

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69943

 

[SonsOfLeda]

Is this in the house or basement?

On the main floor (ground level) of the house - it's pretty rare to have basements here in AZ. The drain I was thinking of getting to was in the laundry room, but unfortunately for me it's not a floor drain - it drains to a stand pipe ~4' in the air.

Use a check valve on the drain pipe and account for head pressure for your drain pump selection.

Definately something I have planned - thanks for keeping me on my toes though!

If available drain is between top water level of aquarium return line, Use a 'T' from the main return line and put your dripper on that line and use a float valve in the sump to keep your water level constant.

Basically you're describing a simple automatic top-off system for my sump, correct? Meaning, that if the water level in the sump went below the float switch, the incoming water would be activated and keep the sump at a set level? The problem with this is that it is completely the opposite of what I want to do - this wouldn't be a water changing system at all because it would only be accounting for water that evaporates from the system. I would still have to do weekly water changes just like I do now. Now, if it were simply the level of the water in the sump I was concerned about, your idea would work fine (even though it could be done easier that you've described, like adding the incoming water directly to the sump rather than adding a T to the return).

Here is my pump station. It is detailed in this thread starting at post #5:

Brilliant! So, do you have seperate overflows (and also separate returns) for both your wet/dry and your pumping station then? I hadn't really thought about splitting the two functions up, but I like the way you've got yours set up. Also, do you have your sump pump sitting up off the tank bottom, or is it resting directly on the bottom? How noisy is it? How often does it activate? Is it meant for constant use? The reason that I ask is that the vertical float I'm looking at has a max activation range of 6.5" (~20 gallons in my sump design) and I wouldn't let it drain all the way to the bottom because my normal return pump would then be high and dry. If I separated the two and used a sump, I would be able to have a longer period between draining and filling and I wouldn't have to worry about draining all the way to empty in the pumping station.

Also, as an aside, there may be an accessable bathroom that will work as an incoming water source. If so, I may be able to use that drain if it's below the level I want my sump to stay. If that's the case, then I won't have to worry about all of this pump mess and can just let gravity do what it does best - it's so much easier to plan a simple overflow bulkhead than a float switch and pump set-up.

I just have to remember that if I want gravity to work for me, I can't put any inclines at all in the drain hose even if the output to the drain is below the original drain bulkhead in the sump. This drain needs to work without any syphoning action at all, correct?

Thanks for everyone's feedback so far! I can't wait to get going on this project!

 

[SonsOfLeda]

Here is my pump station.

I also forgot to ask you something. Because you have your wet/dry and your pumping station separate, the level in your wet/dry is determined by the flow of your return pump and overflows (and some by the baffles you have set up), correct? Does that mean that it isn't effected by evaporation at all since that's compensated for by having a separate pumping station? Pretty much your tank and sump water levels stay set and only your station fluctuates? If so, even more reason to separate the two.

Way to innovate!

 

[rallysman]

Mine is basically the same as Chompers', but I use a different style float switch. Mine is a replacement type that triggers a smaller pump that is in a different location. I've been using it for over a year and it has been working flawlessly. I like this style better than the whip style since it's less likely to hit anything and can be used when you don't have as much room.


When using gravity you have to be careful. When the power fails it may drain too much water and then your system might not have enough water for the pump to operate when the power comes back. You can solve this with solenoid valves, but it's much easier to get a low volume pump that won't drain too much water when the power comes back on. (the main pump will lower the level in the sump before the drain pump can pump too much out).
I'm using both gravity and the float switch pump, and I like the switch/pump much better.

Edit: Damn, I need to clean the sump up! LOL