I have a spathodus and a tropheus in a tang. tank with leleupi, n. tretacephalus, a julie, a brichardi and a few compressicepps. i feed all of them a high quality pellet (spectrum something or other) that is about 35% protein. I mix in brine shrimp and mysis shrimp a couple times a week. does this sound like a diet that might eventually lead to bloat in the spathodus and tropheus, or do you guys think i have a decent mix. any information would be greatly appreciated. also, if they do ever get bloat, what are the symptoms and/or treatments? thanks ahead of time
Avoiding bloat
- Thread starter JeffLeMay
- Start date
No. You need to increase the veggies... alot. Vary the diet more.
They quit eating, usually well before any swelling. Treatment is really difficult. I'll look into it.
thanks for the help fish maven. should i literally feed things like zucchini and spinach like i do for my plecos (i know spinach probably isn't a good idea right now, but you know what i mean) or rather use a food or pellet that just has more vegetable matter? any suggestions? i appreciate the help
JeffLeMay;523781; said:
spinich will be fine
that whole e.coli incident.........
the bacteria wont affect fish
The idea is variety. With the fish you mentioned I feel you're using the wrong things or at least in the wrong proportions. I think a diet heavy in veggies would be a better choice rather than the meaty things you've mentioned. Cooked veggies would be easier to get a bite of for your fish. Spirulina's a good choice but you'll have to mix it with other things to get them to eat it. It tastes terrible. I've used a freeze-dried product from the grocery, Nori (sp), in the oriental section. Soaking it with frozen brine and feeding the mix works. It's a good solution for SW fish also, puts a belly on yellow tangs and others. Hikari's lionhead actually puts a head on things like red humps.
Now, about treatment. I can't find a good solution. Once upon a time... you could have used a strong dose of Chloremphenical. The FDA removed it from the market as unsafe. People were taking it themselves, self-prescribed. The problem isn't as much what to use as how to get it into the fish. Basically treating a bacterial disease can be done three ways:
1. Add it to the water: only works if the fish has open sores. (for example, ulcers)
2. Mix it with food to get it into the system: Typically the first thing an infected fish does is quit eating. So... no go.
3. Inject it: I've injected fish before. It's not hard. Finding the right dosage is almost impossible unless you're a math whiz or an engineer. doctors normally have to work it out multiple times to check their figures before recommending the dosage. Too long, too expensive.
It's been suggested that bloat is a stress related problem. Fighting a visable disease just means that the fish's problem has progressed beyond it's ability to kept it in check. It's immune system needs help. Most stress related problems are environmental vs being picked on by another fish or something else. If you could eliminate the source of the problem the fish may be able to handle it alone. You also get get the same diatribe about recognizing the problem quickly and addressing it... BLAH BLAH BLAH.
Typical causes. 1. Too much salt. 2. crappy water- nitrates too high. 3. Lousy diet.
The first two can be addressed by doing successive water changes. The third by throwing out the old food you've been using and buying fresher stuff as well as more veggies.
There's literature to back up some of this and I've used that mixed with my opinions. I don't think I've run into the too much salt thing. I understand how it could happen though. Most people don't realize that only good freshwater evaporates. Salt and all the junk in the water are still there. When you pull water from the tank, you're diluting the junk and removing part of the salt. After refilling the tank, you only replace the salt you've removed. Take out 25 gallons, treat the tank with the salt you'd use for the 25 gallons NOT the whole tank.
I think doing the water changes, treating with the proper solution of salt mixed with a med that can be absorbed by the fish through sores or actually through the gill tissue is the answer. Currently, the only drug I know that's absorbed through the gill tissue, and available at fish stores, is Kanacyn. (kanamycin sulfate)
If you want to research this yourself do a Google or Yahoo search on bloat or dropsy. If you find something definitive, post back and let us all know what you found. Dan
Now, about treatment. I can't find a good solution. Once upon a time... you could have used a strong dose of Chloremphenical. The FDA removed it from the market as unsafe. People were taking it themselves, self-prescribed. The problem isn't as much what to use as how to get it into the fish. Basically treating a bacterial disease can be done three ways:
1. Add it to the water: only works if the fish has open sores. (for example, ulcers)
2. Mix it with food to get it into the system: Typically the first thing an infected fish does is quit eating. So... no go.
3. Inject it: I've injected fish before. It's not hard. Finding the right dosage is almost impossible unless you're a math whiz or an engineer. doctors normally have to work it out multiple times to check their figures before recommending the dosage. Too long, too expensive.
It's been suggested that bloat is a stress related problem. Fighting a visable disease just means that the fish's problem has progressed beyond it's ability to kept it in check. It's immune system needs help. Most stress related problems are environmental vs being picked on by another fish or something else. If you could eliminate the source of the problem the fish may be able to handle it alone. You also get get the same diatribe about recognizing the problem quickly and addressing it... BLAH BLAH BLAH.
Typical causes. 1. Too much salt. 2. crappy water- nitrates too high. 3. Lousy diet.
The first two can be addressed by doing successive water changes. The third by throwing out the old food you've been using and buying fresher stuff as well as more veggies.
There's literature to back up some of this and I've used that mixed with my opinions. I don't think I've run into the too much salt thing. I understand how it could happen though. Most people don't realize that only good freshwater evaporates. Salt and all the junk in the water are still there. When you pull water from the tank, you're diluting the junk and removing part of the salt. After refilling the tank, you only replace the salt you've removed. Take out 25 gallons, treat the tank with the salt you'd use for the 25 gallons NOT the whole tank.
I think doing the water changes, treating with the proper solution of salt mixed with a med that can be absorbed by the fish through sores or actually through the gill tissue is the answer. Currently, the only drug I know that's absorbed through the gill tissue, and available at fish stores, is Kanacyn. (kanamycin sulfate)
If you want to research this yourself do a Google or Yahoo search on bloat or dropsy. If you find something definitive, post back and let us all know what you found. Dan
wow, thanks for all the advice. If i just had the spathodus and tropheus i wouldn't bother with the meaty stuff at all, but all the other fish i have, at least from what i've read, like the brine shrimp and blood worms and the higher protein foods. i guess my problem is really trying to acoomodate both types of eaters. i will defintiely start up with the veggies. as far as water quality goes, it is close to perfect, and i do weekly changes. thanks again for all the help, hopefully i can work everything out and keep all the fish happy
I would most definitely stay away from too much protein for the tropheus. They are worse at getting bloat than the Malawi mbuna as they apparently only feed on algae in the Lake.
I use a SERA product called "baktopur Direct" when I suspect bloat. I have had huge success with this as it is medication against internal and external bacteria. This is a German product with its main ingredient being "nifurpirinol 10mg". It comes in tablet form and I drop in a tablet per 13gals water.
I have made a mixture of Zuccini, Spinach, peas, prawns mixed with spirulina powder. Forgot to add some garlic oil as I belive it is great for the fish. Blend all the stuff together and then freeze in small packets. They love the stuff.
I use a SERA product called "baktopur Direct" when I suspect bloat. I have had huge success with this as it is medication against internal and external bacteria. This is a German product with its main ingredient being "nifurpirinol 10mg". It comes in tablet form and I drop in a tablet per 13gals water.
I have made a mixture of Zuccini, Spinach, peas, prawns mixed with spirulina powder. Forgot to add some garlic oil as I belive it is great for the fish. Blend all the stuff together and then freeze in small packets. They love the stuff.
thanks for the help scotty. any idea where i can get the bloat meds? it would be nice to have some on hand just in case. also, where can i get spirulina powder?