baby oscar stopped eating. plz input

[petspoiler]

I posted in the wrong section last night (SA), thinking maybe oscar had gotten upset & went on a food strike.
history is here:
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...scar-prob-stopped-eating-does-huge-quot-yawns

Last night I added salt @under 1 tsp per gallon water. Temp increase to 85.

He acts hungrier today, but won't eat.
First, he shows interest in food- looks & approaches, which triggers big 'yawns' as he swims away. It looks like discomfort instead of normal. those are the only remaining behavior changes.
He's getting thinner, obvious behind his gills. therefore, it's hard to tell if his gills are thick or swollen. No redness. They appear to stand out a little, but it seems relative to losing fat behind them and in abdomen.
I can't see irritation.

Is there is a sickness or IP that primary symptom is not eating?
Don't know if the disproportionate yawns with full-body shaking is a symptom. I've never seen that consistent overreaction after approaching food.
poop was normal. now his digestive tract is empty.

He was really blossoming & growing.

 

[petspoiler]

! Nobody with input?
He still hasn't eaten. I would've kept suspecting "oscar drama", except (1) he's a growing 4" baby, (2) he was increasingly eating like a total PIG & 'looking for' food from my hand. stop was immediate.
(3) I increased the temp, which usually increases their appetite.

I don't know what to think (or do), with no visible issues.

Temp is @85 now. salt @1 tsp per gallon.

The only mood-boosting test is adding sacrificial fish. I have nothing home grown so that's risky.
The only medical treatment 'test' would be for IPs, but he came from experienced sources. no reason to suspect exposure to them.
I have no experience with IPs, not inclined to use the meds without advise. I'd have to order it, there's nothing in town.
The week before he stopped eating I visited lfs for tankmate candidates. nothing looked good.

He's swimming normal, only visible symptom is getting thinner. He didn't even go this far when I first got him and he was scared. He caved in for wiggly worms.

ps: I have to order some other supplies ASAP. It would really help to know if I need something for him!

 

[ecoli73]

I don't think it is IPs...but if you must medicate, Metronidazole is pretty safe.

I still think he ate something he shouldn't have...anyway...

 

[kevinfleming21]

I posted on the other thread

 

[petspoiler]

I don't think it is IPs...but if you must medicate, Metronidazole is pretty safe.

I still think he ate something he shouldn't have...anyway...

thanks for reply.
Why do you think it's not IPs? I have no 1st-hand experience with that, but I've read info.
PLZ advise: If he was yours, what protocol would you follow now? should I get some Metronidazole just in case but wait before administering it, does it cover all IPs?
does it sound like something might be stuck in his throat? would rock grit resolve itself? He hasn't crapped at all for days, with no food.

Do you think heat & salt is a good idea or not? I thought if something is stuck in his craw ;-) salt might help w/irritation.
would you use another soothing/healing product, or do they not work inside their throats?

 

[kevinfleming21]

If he just has a sore throat from a pellet going down the wrong way or something, it might take him a bit for it to heal and feel comfortable again.

 

[framcosco]

heyGranny: I am no expert but here are my thoughts:

You do not mention size of the temporary tank & you mention you do WC's twice a day at times, which leads me to believe it is WAY to small for it. This of course can lead to stress & it isn't the healthiest of environments for an O for many reasons. Is this the main problem? maybe not but it does not help the situation. I would move the O to the 60 gallon & add seachem stability per the bottles instructions OR simply move one of your matured/cycled filters to the 60 gallon to cycle. Give it more space. OR you can put it back in your main tank with a divider.

You mention it was eating like a pig and all of a sudden it stopped eating overnight after you had recently moved things around the tank. i think the O got pissed & tried to move things around, it swallowed a piece of plastic plant and is now stuck. This would explain the yawning & the jerking of the body. It is trying to dislodge what ever is stuck inside him. Could it be internal parasites? without testing no one can tell 100%, but I would say no because it stopped eating overnight. When Os have IPs, it is more of a gradual deterioration & in general take days/weeks to completely stop eating. You mention the poo was not stringy during the time it ate -- so again it does not point to IP. If the O is an F1 from Rapps, chances of it having IP is slim.

Could it be sulking? To a certain extent yes. But there are other indicators here that lead me to believe it is more. Again, in general when an O sulks, it will not show interest in the food you throw in the tank, it will simply ignore it & continue sulking. Your O shows interest & wants to eat. I may be more inclined to say sulking if it was a new fish & it was not used to you feeding it. You mentioned you two had a good bond going already -- so sulking would be short lived if this was the only issue.

So what to do? Move to a larger tank ASAP. Instead of putting aquarium salt, try epsom salt (this is a natural laxative). Continue observing the O. Continue keeping water clean. Use PRIME to treat your water. You don't know what's in your water until you test for stuff (heavy metals, etc). Be on the safe side. If you decide to use the 60 gallon, try to put that tank next to your other tank where the O can see the other fish.

You can try these things to help it with whatever it has. I sure hope it is just sulking. If it does have something stuck in its intestines, there is not much you can do but to follow these steps & hope it passes.

Observe, observe, observe for any changes, growths, etc on the fish. I would not use meds at this point. Give it a better environment, observe & go from there. best of luck.

 

[framcosco]

He hasn't crapped at all for days, with no food.

When an O has internal parasites it will "crap" something out (usually the lining of the intestines) even when it has not eaten -- this further makes me want to believe it swallowed something it was not supposed to.

 

[framcosco]

If he just has a sore throat from a pellet going down the wrong way or something, it might take him a bit for it to heal and feel comfortable again.

sore throat! haha. maybe it bruised one of its tonsils!

 

[petspoiler]

I don't think it is IPs...but if you must medicate, Metronidazole is pretty safe.

I still think he ate something he shouldn't have...anyway...

thank you.

I posted on the other thread

yup. thanks again.

If he just has a sore throat from a pellet going down the wrong way or something, it might take him a bit for it to heal and feel comfortable again.

I should probably take him to the ER. lol

....size of the temporary tank
... you do WC's twice a day at times, which leads me to believe it is WAY to small for it.
This of course can lead to stress ....
I would move the O to the 60 gallon & add seachem stability...... OR simply move one of your matured/cycled filters to the 60 gallon to cycle. Give it more space. OR you can put it back in your main tank with a divider.

..... i think the O got pissed & tried to move things around, it swallowed a piece of plastic plant and is now stuck. This would explain the yawning & the jerking of the body. It is trying to dislodge what ever is stuck inside him.

So what to do? Move to a larger tank ASAP......, try epsom salt (this is a natural laxative). ..... Use PRIME to treat your water. You don't know what's in your water until you test for stuff (heavy metals, etc)..... If you decide to use the 60 gallon, try to put that tank next to your other tank where the O can see the other fish.

...... If it does have something stuck in its intestines, there is not much you can do but to follow these steps & hope it passes.

Observe, observe, observe for any changes, ..... I would not use meds at this point. Give it a better environment, observe & go from there...

he's approx 4 inches long & the qt is 15G.
my xtra water changes are not bcuz of bad water param test results. I'm on well water & they're easy to do until moving him on to next tank.
He enjoys the water changes, and I've done some just for fun :-/ he spreads his fins, struts around like a peacock, & usually eats more... BUT I guess you could have a valid point, even tho I felt like it was almost like providing life in a small creek :-(

If something is stuck inside him, I think it's a small piece from the rocks. the plants aren't plastic, supposedly silk. there's nothing missing from the stems. He has moved the smallest plant, but he started doing that before the changes, and he always puts it in the same place. LOL. it's not anchored & I got a kick out of that. It has a weighted base & I can hear it drop on the bare tank bottom.
From what you said, at least my suspicions are on target regarding his excessive yawning & jerking..
I can't put the 60G where he can see into the other tank at fish. I could, with the small tank.
Maybe I'll put him in the 75 with divider for the stimulation of seeing fish. but he was aggressive & I don't them to stay huddled up bcuz of him.
I was gonna order Prime anyway, as it's compatible with me adding Purigen to my filters. I will get the Stability, wasn't sure if it really worked.

How much epsom salts do I use per gallon of water?
I'll have to do that while he's alone. how long before expecting him to crap (without eating)?
If it doesn't work I'll have to put him in 60G alone to continue dosing.

What about the temperature- Is 85 too high? He's usually at 80, but his breathing looks fine with bubbler.

If he dies I'm gonna cut him open to find what's inside. I 'might' even be able to get one of these hick vets to help, if all I'm looking for is an object & location, nothing complicated.

OH, and I can probably get the well water test results to find out about metals, etc. It's part of what we get billed for in this neighborhood.