Beefheart "urban myth?"

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Mr Pleco

Piranha
MFK Member
Mar 18, 2006
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Waiting for the play off games to start and I just got done feeding my discus. Question: how did the practice of feeding discus, beefheart start and why?

It's not like shoals of discus in the amazon are ravaging cattle when they enter the river? Is it an urban myth ? Is beefheart neccesary to discus ? Why only discus?:popcorn:
 
Mr Pleco;3793337; said:
Waiting for the play off games to start and I just got done feeding my discus. Question: how did the practice of feeding discus, beefheart start and why?

It's not like shoals of discus in the amazon are ravaging cattle when they enter the river? Is it an urban myth ? Is beefheart neccesary to discus ? Why only discus?:popcorn:
Beefheart is high in protein, low in fat for quick growth. It's not necessary, but it's a cheap and easy source of protein. This is why it's been popular for decades. Several people have taken credit for first feeding beefheart over the years. Who knows for sure?
 
It started before prepared foods were worth a crap. Now, it's just a holdover for stubborn people who think they can make a better food than trained professionals. It has no basis in natural nutrition, but somehow its use lingers.
 
cchhcc;3793587; said:
It started before prepared foods were worth a crap. Now, it's just a holdover for stubborn people who think they can make a better food than trained professionals. It has no basis in natural nutrition, but somehow its use lingers.

A lot of prepared foods still aren't worth a crap. Read the ingredients sometime. Most are full of fillers and binders that are indigestible, and have no nutritional value. This is a problem throughout the pet industry, not just fish food. 99% of dog and cat foods have all kinds of fillers like corn, rice, and grains. Even the expensive brands. That's why a lot of pet breeders make their own food. Serious discus hobbyists can still make a better mix with all fresh ingredients, and supplement with live food for nutrition more complete than any commercial food anywhere. It's much cheaper per ounce as well. It really has nothing to do with "stubborn people".
 
hillbilly;3793822; said:
A lot of prepared foods still aren't worth a crap. Read the ingredients sometime. Most are full of fillers and binders that are indigestible, and have no nutritional value. This is a problem throughout the pet industry, not just fish food. 99% of dog and cat foods have all kinds of fillers like corn, rice, and grains. Even the expensive brands. That's why a lot of pet breeders make their own food. Serious discus hobbyists can still make a better mix with all fresh ingredients, and supplement with live food for nutrition more complete than any commercial food anywhere. It's much cheaper per ounce as well. It really has nothing to do with "stubborn people".

Thanks for your opinion. Your comments about some prepared foods being worthless is right on in some cases. But based on my animal nutrition classes in college, my association with one of the leading fish vets in the country, and the ingredients list on the back of my NLS pellets I don't see the need to feed cows to my fish! :naughty:
 
Bento I don't know how you can make enough beef for 3 tanks for 15 bucks. Price is what ~2.50 per lb, then you have to clean it, add veggies/vitamins etc. If you were to feed only 1/3 an ounce per tank that would end up costing you at least 57 bucks just in beefheart... And lets face it most people put in extras that cost about the same as the beefheart. (So trully if you were only feeding 1 once a day it would cost you at least 100, which still is likely WAY low compaired to what it really costs to feed Discus.)

That said I use beefheart for juvies, with a ton of other types of foods. Though more often then not now I end up just using really lean beef.

As for feeding cows to fish... well just realize that if there was a carcus in the water they would scavange.
 
ikevi;3798992; said:
Bento I don't know how you can make enough beef for 3 tanks for 15 bucks. Price is what ~2.50 per lb, then you have to clean it, add veggies/vitamins etc. If you were to feed only 1/3 an ounce per tank that would end up costing you at least 57 bucks just in beefheart... And lets face it most people put in extras that cost about the same as the beefheart. (So trully if you were only feeding 1 once a day it would cost you at least 100, which still is likely WAY low compaired to what it really costs to feed Discus.)

That said I use beefheart for juvies, with a ton of other types of foods. Though more often then not now I end up just using really lean beef.

As for feeding cows to fish... well just realize that if there was a carcus in the water they would scavange.

True on the scavenging thing, but I doubt too many discus or angels would be at that feed!
 
deja vu? I just addressed this issue on another forum a couple of days ago.





In the Dec 2006 edition of TFH the God of Discus himself, Jack Wattley, stated:

"I've moved in a new direction regarding the feeding of discus, and after many tests feel that a top quality flake or pellet food formulated especially for discus is perhaps the best direction to take. "




http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1679-62252008000400008



"This species feeds predominantly on algal periphyton, fine organic detritus, plant matter, and small aquatic invertebrates."


"The alimentary canal of Symphysodon is characterized by a poorly defined stomach and an elongate intestine, some 300 mm long and 3 mm wide (in a 180 mm SL specimen). This intestinal morphology is typical of a cichlid with a dominantly vegetarian, detritivorous, or omnivorous diet."


The scientific journal linked to above pretty much clears up the myth that discus are a highly carnivorous species that require massive amounts of protein for proper growth.

Chong et al ran a 3 month feed trial on juvenile discus (fish approx. 4.5grams in weight) and concluded that a diet consisting of 45-50% protein, and 8% fat was ideal for optimum growth for juveniles of this species.

I have no argument with those stats, and the same could be said for hundreds/thousands of ornamental species, but somehow this data has been used by certain segments of the discus world to support their use of a high protein diet (such as beefheart) throughout the various life stages of the fish.

Chong et al used fish meal as the source of protein (along with casein & gelatine as binding agents) in their study, not beefheart, and those levels of protein/fat were for juvenile discus, not adults, or even semi adults.


In Heiko Bleher's Discus book vol 1. it also gives a full description of wild Discus nutrition and states that the 5 most common items eaten by discus in the wild are; detritus, vegetable matter, algae & micro algae, aquatic invertebrates, terrestrial & arboreal arthropods.

If one feels the need to supplement their fishes diet, I would think that insects such as ants, spiders, cricket parts, mealworms, etc would be far better suited to their digestive system, than foods such as beefheart.

While a high protein, high fat (or incorrect type of fat) diet may indeed bring on swift growth, over the long haul it can also eventually result in excess lipid deposition and necrosis of the liver, ultimately leading to premature death. In essence a discus that is fed a less than ideal diet and that dies at the ripe old age of 5-10 yrs, may have possibly reached 15-20 yrs (or longer) with a more properly balanced diet. Perhaps to some people this isn't important?

Also if too much excess protein is supplied in a fishes diet, due to the energy required to deaminate & excrete those excess amino acids, one can actually experience a decrease in the growth of the fish. So not only can crude protein in excess of the fishes requirement lead to excess excretion of ammonia via the gills and excess nitrogen from the feces (as in excess pollution to your tank), it can also be counter productive to the growth of the fish.
 
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