Bottom Filters Useful?

[dominicolas]

Some people like bottom filters and others say they are useless.

Arguments

Pro: Bacteria in the gavel filters the water and takes care of waste just like bio balls in a pond filter and the gravel acts as a mechanical filter.

Con: They just suck stuff to the bottom and don't really clean the water


I honestly don't know which one is true.

 

[wataugachicken]

well, if you run a reverse undergravel filter, where the water flows up through the gravel instead of being pulled down into it, you keep the pro arguments, as the substrate bound bacteria gets high water flow and oxygenation, but you lose the cons - debris is pushed out into the water cloumn and can get sucked up by a hob or canister filter.

 

[bigcichntwisted]

Pro: Bacteria in the gavel filters the water and takes care of waste just like bio balls in a pond filter and the gravel acts as a mechanical filter.

Con: They just suck stuff to the bottom and don't really clean the water

Get the popcorn ready.

First, define "really clean the water"

My opinion is, an UGF's job is 10% mech. filtration, 90% bio. filtration & I'd rather have the UGF bio filtr. any day when I know all I have to do are my water changes w/ a 1/3 substrate vacuum each time, don't over feed & the "stuff" on the bttm is history. The UGF filter & it's uptubes may not be the picture perfect idea some hobbyist are looking for (? is it what is best to our eye or best for the fishes health), but the method, if implemented correctly, is def. 1 of the best by far in doing what it's intended use is, that might be why they've been around for so long. For the 1st 5+ yr.'s I started seriously keeping fish all I used on 6-7 tanks was an UGF & pwrhd's on the tubes + water changes & was blessed w/ very, very little prob.'s. Any prob.'s were for the most part due more to my slacking on water changes. Note: all tanks mentioned for the 5+ yr.'s were 20-55 gal.

well, if you run a reverse undergravel filter, where the water flows up through the gravel instead of being pulled down into it, you keep the pro arguments, as the substrate bound bacteria gets high water flow and oxygenation, but you lose the cons - debris is pushed out into the water cloumn and can get sucked up by a hob or canister filter.

Wataugachicken makes a good point (and me hungry, lol) in regards to a RUGV & not just a UGF. Many people here either don't use anything in the uptubes on a UGF or they use an air pump, neither is "ideal". If you use the appropriate size pwrhd on the top of the uptubes, they (UGF) wrk 1000 x's better, for BB, creating an actual pull of the debris thru the substrate, thru the UGF plate & releasing out BB via the uptubes primarily (BTW, can you say, safe well water or safe FW in the wild, how do you think this happens). At this point as "Watauga" pointed out the debris (very little BTW) is then released bck into the tank (RUGF thru the plates & UGF thru the tubes) for any additional mech filter method to collect. The beneficial use of a UGF is one of the greatest, possibly the best biofiltr available i.e. creating BB thru the assisted breakdown of waste build up & sludge thru substrate/gravel, coral, ect. creating the filtering effect. We do have to recognize that UGF & sand don't wrk at all unless used as a RUGF as "Watauga" mentioned, so here we're just talking about gravel or crushed coral w/ use of a UGF. If the substrate (gravel/coral, ect.) is vacuumed 1/3 at a time during water changes, then you never lose then BB seeded in the substrate/gravel bed, any debris that isn't collected by the mech. filtration is then removed by another form of mech. filtr, vacuuming. If the uptubes are used w/ pwrhd's, however big or small, then you can dramatically increase your tanks flow, a little or a lot, which is very rarely a bad thing (actually a very good thing, even necessary when medicating). You can also use the air hose that most pwhd's come w/ to increase oxygenation if you'd like. Many of us do, using the bursting of the bubbles as an additional form of mech./bio. filtration, as nitrate & any possible rare chlorine (best applicable in aging water w/ out chem.'s) is released from the water from the bursting of the bubbles, i.e. ponds & waterfalls, not just for looks, not to mention the overall benefit of highly oxygenated water (in rare emergency instances this can be very important for oxygen concentration needed for the fish to survive, even more so w/ heavily planted tanks or medicating). Many pwrhd's can reverse the flow direction pushing dwn instead of pulling up the uptubes & pushing any built up debris out the other designated uptube, keeping the area under the UGF relatively clean of build up & most all pwrhd's have adjustable flow controls, from very little to rip current flow.

I wish I could have made this shorter, but as you can see. The fact is there seems to be this ideology that has come about in the last few yr.'s that UGF are useless, a pain, not necessary & it would appear from the rational used frequently, that it's because people don't like the look, the tubes & possible hd's are an eye sore or they were never educated to the proper use & outstanding benefits of using one. This can be a selfish hobby, but the proper care of the fish should be most important, isn't that why we scream at Wal Mart constantly? UGF aren't the answer to everything aquarium, but they have & will continue to be a large beneficial part of the equation.


Last, you may not in any way sue or seek reimbursements of any sort (not even the popcorn) from the writer for the unrecoverable, lengthy, necssary duration of time it took to read said post, if you actually did read said post, LOL.

Cheers All

 

[Wolf3101]

LOL I have to agree with most of this....UGF's have been used for MANY years and in fact are still used by some breeders...(very fry friendly) But they have one problem that has always bothered me and that also plagues some other filter systems and that is....
Just removing fish waste from the visable portion of the aquarium...or even the whole tank in the case of cannisters...does NOT remove it from the water...it still decomposes...adds to the bio-load...and effects the fish unless removed. Unless your doing daily gravil vacs your running a risk IMO.

Reverse flow was a step in the right direction but dosn't address the suspended junk problem....the way I see it is....if your have to run another filter....HOB or cannister then why bother with the RFUGF? in the first place?
My other problem with the UGF is this...if flow is stopped for an extended period the BB die out....thats natural but whats not concidered is that AS they die they poisen the water and acclerate the process...Cannisters, sumps and HOB units have isolated pockets of water that can be cleaned out BEFORE flow is restored but with the UGF the process is taking place in the tank itself.

 

[bigcichntwisted]

LOL I have to agree with most of this AS they die they poisen the water and acclerate the process...Cannisters, sumps and HOB units have isolated pockets of water that can be cleaned out BEFORE flow is restored but with the UGF the process is taking place in the tank itself.

Glad to hear your LOL & not cursen OL, lol.


I hear ya Wolf & that should be taken into consideration in deciding to or not to. What can I say, I couldn't cover it all & some how it does seem the grass is always greener, LOL

Point made & taken. Next point, no matter what you do, make sure to have a bck up to your bck up & so on & so on. Mine are bck up batteries (soon to be whole house generator, wait till she sees that 1 coming, LOL) & yes 15-25% water changes every 5-7 days, w/ very thorough 1/3 vacuuming each time, plus, last but not least, reverse flow "sessions" once a mnth, a aquarium UGF colonic if you may, flush till cleansed, tank water use only of course. This all might sound like a lot, but not much more time spent at all, then lets say water testing correctly, LOL.

Cheers mate

 

[Wolf3101]

Hey..I think all of my first tanks were UGF's and then RFUGF's... I remember seeing my first HOB filter thinking...that craps never to last.... LOL
and what the hells up with these new fangled tanks without metal frames?

 

[dominicolas]

Thanks. You all really taught me something (especially bigcichntwisted) and I appreciate it. I've been using UGFs in three tanks and now that I'm starting on another aquarium I was wondering if I should stick with it, and now I will.

 

[Prairie]

There are some aquariums that have been set up for 20+ years using solely UGF, must be doing something right, eh?

 

[Wolf3101]

Properly maintained Model A fords are still on the road....but personally I wouldnt want to head across country in one....