CA cichlid aggression

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cichlidfish

Peacock Bass
MFK Member
Jun 18, 2005
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I have been keeping CA cichlids for over 15 years and one of the biggest challenges is the aggression no matter which sp. In my opinion nothing you can do to kirb the aggression works in the long term. It eventually comes down to removing or shuffeling fish around.

Myths that I have found not to work and my reasons:

1. Lower temps. Most people say lowering the metabolisim will reduce aggression. I think this might work on sp. in warmer waters (like SA cichlids), but not for CAs. My thought is that CA cichlids are used to cooler temps and temp changes in the wild.

2. Hiding spots. A territory w/ hiding spots is always desirable to any cichlid. I think this only works in large tanks. Most CA's in will want all of the 4' for their territory. The only CA's I find this works is with sp. specific tanks (like a group of firemouths for example), cryptos and achos. Mixing varrious CAs in the long term in a 4' tank rarely works.

3. Dithers/targets. Dithers may help in breeding time and may help pairs bond, and might take aways ome of the pressure on the cichlids tank mates, but another cichlid is more of a threat. As far as targets go-most cichlids only care about other cichlids and never see other fish as competition or a threat. Every CA cichlid I has always ignored livebarers or tetras.

4. Over stocking. I've tried this and never works. Once a cichlid is determined to have the whole tank to themselves, then they will pick off one tank mate at a time until they are all gone. If the aggression is conspecific then the fisrt ones to go will be the look-alikes. Conspecific aggression is a very vague theory IMO. It is all in the prospective of the fish, and what they see as competition. In most cases any cichlid will be competition for food and territory since these fish are in unnatural conditions.

The bottom line is that CA cichlids are adapting to aquariums in their ways. Unlike most SA and African cichlids they tend to fight to the death and will never let up. Of course there are SA and Africans that are the exception, but I think it is more common in CAs. At the end of the day tank size is the only solution for a CA community tank, and that wil only reduce the aggression, but never end it.

Anyone have any thoughts or opinions on this?
 
You are DAMN right! Whew! No matter what and how, it is what it is. Cichlids will always kill, and sometimes for no apparent reasons.

But in the years I was given this big 'Greek Ruin' decor, and I must say it has saved a lot of fishes for me. When being chased smaller ones will go through the pillars and escape. The bigger ones will go through the bigger gaps and escape. The real big ones go round and round the ruins and the chaser gives up.
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I got rid of it though, because I went in a different direction. I only have 1-2" frys and although they are aggressive they are not strong enough to kill each other. Don't worry they won't grow fast enough because I sell them faster already. Currently I have about 50-60 different frys in my 120 gal.
 
I have only been in the hobby seriously for 5 years now - I say seriously because getting a 20g starter kit for Christmas when I was a kid and listening to Petsmart advice I really don't count. Of those 5 years I've been into NW cichlids the past 2.5 started off with the dwarf species. I am now starting to get into the medium sized NW for my main tank which I am setting up as a CA/SA community setup.

I first started with adults or near adult cichlids - and that didn't work out very well. I tried 1-3 on your list above and none of it worked for an adult cichlid. Adults are rather easy to find so I liked the idea of having a nicely stocked and colorful tank instantly instead of going the growing out together method. The tank boss was a male Salvini who bossed around every other fish in the tank - including an 8" male GT.

After all the fish were re-homed before serious injury occurred (worst was a few missing scales and split fins) I am now trying the growing out small/juvie CA/SA fish together and I am going to try to overstock to see if that helps. I have been doing a lot of reading on here, MFK MN style, MCA, Cichlid-Forums, and other cichlid based community forums in regards to what to choose for trying the overstocked method as it's not just simply dump a bunch of fish in the tank and hope for the best. I will say that it's been difficult to pick CAs to put in the tank because of their temperament verse SAs. I do have a 4" male Regani who is #2 in the tank and a 3" female Nic who is #3 in the tank and they are rather peaceful to every fish even those lower on the totem pole then them.
 
Since this is about CA aggression (and I can't edit my post) mind sharing your opinions and experiences on what species were the most docile (for a CA cichlid that is) that you kept?
 
Calihawk-I like your idea of creating a barrier and I have notice that if there is somethink partly in the way it will break up the chase. This seems to disrutp aggression. Smaller cichlids can take advantage of a small hiding spot to get away from larger bullies.

Aqualoon-maybe buying adults vs. grow outs works out better. I have been doing the grow out thing and it works for some time, then one fish will go crazy once hits sexual maturity. Do you add them all at the same time?

I have a t. ellioti that got along with everything when smaller, but now he is 7'' and a real terror. I had him in a 72g. with a larger a. robertsoni but he is now in a 25g. The robertsoni bullied him for awhile, causing no real damage. The ellioti was stressed, so then I added a h. deppi and the t. ellioti got more confident having a smaller cichlid to chase. The t. ellioti started to seriously beat on the a. robertsoni, and the h. deppi. These CA's aren't the most aggressive when you compare w/ the big bruts like trimacs and doviis, but still can be pretty aggressive. I am hoping that maybe one day I will be able to mix these cichlids in a 180g, but I am still worried. Now the a. robertsoni and h. deppi are doing fine, but I don't think they will work in the 72g for that long.
 
Since this is about CA aggression (and I can't edit my post) mind sharing your opinions and experiences on what species were the most docile (for a CA cichlid that is) that you kept?

h. cyano-10'' female-couldn't keep her with anything. Had to give her up.
convict-6'' male. Had him for the 15 years. He was a scraper in his younger years but mellowed out when older. He bullied, but never killed anything.
firemouth-5'' male. I've had him for about 7 years, and used to be extremely aggressive. He even killed a larger female salvini! He is pretty mellow now.
c. salvini-female 6''-wasn't very aggressive. She wouldn't back down from a fight, but rarely picked on anything.
HRP-3'' female. She has a long of attitude for such a small fish. She will pick fights with cichlids much bigger, and had to save her from the robertsoni.
a. robertsoni-female 8-9''. she is pretty aggressive towards any cichlid. Not just conspecific like a lot of the "experts" say.
a. rostratus-unsexed and almost 3''. Pretty peaceful, but killed a t. mixteco and a. altifrons. All of these fish were growing out and 2'' at the time. Rostratus are supposed to be the most peaceful of all CAs. I was nieve to think that cichlids this young would be fine for a short period of time.
t. ellioti-male 7''-as I mentioned-he is hyper aggressive and just as bad as the cyano I had.
JD-male about 4''-not aggressive to anything.
h. deppi-male 5''-will pick on smaller cichlids. Almost killed the HRP until I separated them. He is fine w/ the robertsoni and JD.

So I haven't even had some of the true brutes like trimacs or doviis. Sometimes people seem to have better luck mixing those guys then the smaller semi-peaceul CA's.
 
Thanks for the info cichlidfish. I added all the adults at the same time (bioload wasn't an issue as this was a re-scaped mbuna tank that I took down a day or so prior). It worked for a bit but that didn't last all too long. I've always had better luck growing out in other tanks but a local guy was getting out of the hobby so I had access to various fish for cheap. Figured I'd try it, and if it didn't work out no harm no foul and just rehome them - not a biggie.

For the juvies I have now I added the bulk of them at the same time, and I will be adding the remainder throughout the next month/month and a half. It's a mixture of doing the research and seeing what has the highest chance of working and what I can find to try the overstocked route.
 
Thanks for the info cichlidfish. I added all the adults at the same time (bioload wasn't an issue as this was a re-scaped mbuna tank that I took down a day or so prior). It worked for a bit but that didn't last all too long. I've always had better luck growing out in other tanks but a local guy was getting out of the hobby so I had access to various fish for cheap. Figured I'd try it, and if it didn't work out no harm no foul and just rehome them - not a biggie.

For the juvies I have now I added the bulk of them at the same time, and I will be adding the remainder throughout the next month/month and a half. It's a mixture of doing the research and seeing what has the highest chance of working and what I can find to try the overstocked route.

No problem. Sounds like you have experience w/ African cichlids. How do mbuna compare as far as aggression issues? They are supposed to be fairly aggressive as well. the only non-CA cichlid I've had was an oscar.
 
All my cichlids range from 2-5" from convict hybrid to as aggresive as wilds unbie n festae. I went out and bought a 8" green terror to control the agression it did work now they're more mellow
 
No problem. Sounds like you have experience w/ African cichlids. How do mbuna compare as far as aggression issues? They are supposed to be fairly aggressive as well. the only non-CA cichlid I've had was an oscar.

I have only kept lake specific tanks as far as Africans go (Malawi, Tanganyika and Victoria) and I will have to say that I noticed must more intense lip locking at a younger age with the Africans then what I have noticed thus far with my CA/SA cichlids. The only lip locking that has gone on is when I added a JD and he had to establish his pecking order, so he lip locked with a female Nic (which he backed down to) and a smaller male GT (who he is now dominant over).
 
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