Can we talk geography?

[duanes]

Mexico (at least the northern 2/3) is part of North America.
This means the Herichthys (including Nosferatu)

ie (N) bartoni (above), pantostictus (below)

H carpintus

to name just a few, are North American cichlids (The Caribbean Islands are considered by some to be part of North American)
Nandopsis haitiensus from the island of Hispaniola

any fish from (at least geographically) southern Mexico, south through Guatemala,
Theraps lentaginosis

Honduras, Belize, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Costa Rica, and Panama are Central American.
panamense

South America begins in Columbia in the north and stretches to Tierra del Fuego in the south, and has many climate zones, and various water types (warm, cool, cold)(soft, hard, and in between)
this includes warm water species like Acarichthys heckelli

to southern species like Australoheros red ceibal below, that takes temps down to 50'F

So what is the point of this thread? among other things.....
because I see many inaccurate statements here
JDs and other north and central American cichlids are "not" South American
all South Americans do not need soft water,
North & Central Americans often "like" hard water and pH above 8
All new world cichlids do "not" live in 82'F water

 

[newworld]

Mexico (at least the northern 2/3) is part of North America.
This means the Herichthys (including Nosferatu)

ie (N) bartoni (above), pantostictus (below)

H carpintus

to name just a few, are North American cichlids (The Caribbean Islands are considered by some to be part of North American)
Nandopsis haitiensus from the island of Hispaniola

any fish from (at least geographically) southern Mexico, south through Guatemala,
Theraps lentaginosis

Honduras, Belize, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Costa Rica, and Panama are Central American.
panamense

South America begins in Columbia in the north and stretches to Tierra del Fuego in the south, and has many climate zones, and various water types (warm, cool, cold)(soft, hard, and in between)
this includes warm water species like Acarichthys heckelli

to southern species like Australoheros red ceibal below, that takes temps down to 50'F

So what is the point of this thread? among other things.....
because I see many inaccurate statements here
JDs and other north and central American cichlids are "not" South American
all South Americans do not need soft water,
North & Central Americans often "like" hard water and pH above 8
All new world cichlids do "not" live in 82'F water

 

[newworld]

So my dempseys are not South American cichlids? What about my convicts?

 

[duanes]

I realize this thread may seem ludicrous to someone who has been to any of these countries, but first thing this morning I read a post with a profile of a Jack Dempsey stating it is from South America, and couldn't help myself.
By the way Sam, the cichlids you mention, aren't they from Chicago? or are they Central American Xpats?

 

[newworld]

Hahahaha classic

 

[Drstrangelove]

Generally speaking, South America is the land mass from Colombia east and south of it although a few islands in the Caribbean are included. Panama and nearly everything north (including most of the Caribbean) is North America.

North and South America are of course continents. Those are meant to be geographical entities.

Instead, Central America is a made up geopolitical region similar to the made up geopolitical areas we call the middle east or Scandinavia, East Asia, Equatorial Africa or the subcontinent of Asia.

Made up geopolitical areas are confusing to people not because of the "geo-" part but because of the "political" part. Egypt is in Africa, but people think that it's "really" in the middle east, because people keep referring to it as middle eastern, when it's an African county. The same applies to central america which people think is "really" in South America because it "seems" to be more like South America than North America.

To clarify per Wiki.

"Central America" may mean different things to various people, based upon different contexts:

• The United Nations geoscheme defines the region as all states of mainland North America south of the United States and specifically includes all of Mexico.[4]
• In Latin America (especially in Ibero-America) and also in Iberia, although it is agreed what Central America is, they also could consider the Americas a single continent called America, and Central America is considered a part of North America.
• Some geographers include the Mexican states of Campeche, Chiapas, Tabasco, Quintana Roo, and Yucatán.[citation needed]
• Mexico, in whole or in part, is sometimes included by British people.
• Occasionally, regardless of correctness, the term "Central America" is used synonymously with "Middle America".

This is what happens in countries where for example 75% of the people have a strong opinion about Israel, Iraq and Iran but can't find them on a map. 50% can't find New York or Ohio on a map.

People often get confused when they discuss geography primarily because they don't care to look at maps.

 

[Ryan_R]

Good points! Mind you, if the fish you keep have "been in the hobby" for a few generations, arguably they aren't from anywhere but a fish farm. Not a bad thing, as they're easier to keep, IMHO.

-Ryan

 

[jaws7777]

Good points! Mind you, if the fish you keep have "been in the hobby" for a few generations, arguably they aren't from anywhere but a fish farm. Not a bad thing, as they're easier to keep, IMHO.

-Ryan

Agreed i stopped trying to match my softer/neutral water to the harder waters my fish come from and they are thriving. I guess its pointless unless the fish are wild caught.

Question though most oscars are tank bred for generations but some swear that they theive in black/soft water......why ?

 

[qguy]

Several generations of captivity would not defeat several million years of evolution...

Agreed i stopped trying to match my softer/neutral water to the harder waters my fish come from and they are thriving. I guess its pointless unless the fish are wild caught.

Question though most oscars are tank bred for generations but some swear that they theive in black/soft water......why ?

 

[duanes]

Agree with qguy, it would take many, many generations to even scratch the surface and undo those millions of years of evolution.
The tannins in black water tend to have a natural antibacterial effect.
Seems as oscars age they become more and more susceptible to bacteria that cause HITH, and other maladies. The soft, tannin infused water helps to prevent this, and besides, the rivers oscars come from, move in the million of gallons per second, so even the most prolific water change regime can't compare.