Captive care and propagation vs studies done on wild populations

[varanio]

There has been some discussion about the two subjects (passionate ones at that which is good for the forum so that people start learning beyond the basics on reptile care). My discussion about captive care vs studies on wild populations will be exampled with varanids, which is my true calling in terms of reptiels and they are the ones that I enjoy to keep. I think that most of the ideas apply to most reptiles due to them coexisiting with most if not all the species of reptiles we keep excluding USA, although the gila monster is a close relative and here in S. Fl we have an established population of Varanus Niloticus. Enough ranting and on with the discussion in hand.

First, studies done on wild populations. We do these for conservation reasons, we do them because we are passionate about the species and it is the reason specialize in conservation, herpatology etc. They are also done to inform us as to how our captives act in the wild. Foraging patterns, stomach contents, months of activity inactivity, from times of plenty not so plenty, to merely climate and humidity changes. They also teach us about the enviornment they live in wet/dry/humid/arid etc etc... All these things we can apply to our husbandry to better keep our captives healthy and thriving and for them of course to fulfill life events, mainly breed and reproduce young. Thats the whole reason every species is on earth right?

Now on to the captive side, after applying this fine research that some of our scientists have done for us, it is our responsibility as a keeper to apply some of the things that happen in nature here. Like keeping some species more humid some more dry, some more dirt for burrowing like some more vertical space for climbing and arboreal life. Some need more water because they live in creeks, lakes, swamps, estuaries. Some need more room some not so much. Again it all goes back to us as the keeper to inform ourselves on forums such as these and reading up to date journals and articles about how our animals live in the wild. Most of the species we work with are not captive bred on an abundant basis here. IF were dealing with imports we have to take the extra mile to make them feel comfortable in their new home. And questions like these can be answered on the various caresheets we are contributing so that all the beginner type questions are answered and we can share more everyday experiences on behaviors habits etc that our animals have developed.

Good luck to everyone and if anyone wants to add to this feel free. I think I have typed enough. I could of went on, but I dont feel like writing an essay on this subject! Plus it would take away from discussion and input from other folks. Feel free to chime in.

Cheers

 

[davo]

not sure if this is looking at a different angle, or even what is being got at here, but also where possible, captive husbandry of these animals is simplification, for both our and the animals benefit.

A couple of examples to help explain what I mean:

In the wild, the climate for say an aru locality green tree python is going to fluctuate at night time and day time. I'm not necessarily going to do that in captivity... the temp can stay the same 24 hours. I'm going to keep them at say 84-86 for general day to day temps, as this is when we can see this is the best temp. to allow them to continue to be healthy and go about daily processes. However on Aru, you can be sure that they don't have this nice hotspot area all the time, theres been weeks where the temps maybe in the low 70s etc.
If I decide to keep Vipera berus, you can be sure that when you analyse it's stomach content it is going to contain, slugs, worms, larger inverts, worms, voles, mice, birds and other reptiles/amphibians. What will I feed it in captivity... some kind of pre-killed fancy mice.

We set up an ideal world for our captives, usually for what suits us (whatever makes life as easy as we want to make it) and suits them, keeping them alive, healthy and thriving for the entirity of their lives.
The wild and keeping things in captivity are two different practices, each as important as the other.

 

[varanio]

Well said, Davo and a point that was merely trying to be made in another thread. It is about facilitation, we are their mother earth when we decide to keep them. Yes papers and such do have great info, but why not keep them comfortable within our boxes as much as possible. There is alot of muck going around about providing a wet simulation to breed prasinus complex monitors.... I never did it and I have had no ill effects. I water them everyday for 2 mins if I miss a day oh well... theyre not affected it by it one way or another.

 

[davo]

LOL just noticed that at this second in Wamena the local temperature is 17 degrees C. You'd be having a laugh if you'd think I'd keep a green tree python at that temperature for any period of time.

 

[varanio]

amazing the gradients in temps these animals can withstand eh? Iguanas go on further north than where I live about 120 or so more miles... sometimes the winter temps drop in the 30's literature states they cant have it drop below 45 extreme low... goes to show we cant always depend on literature, but only use it as another tool.

 

[Miguel]

KEEP IT UP, YOU TWO KNOWLEDGEABE MONSTERS!!

More installments, please.

 

[Vicious_Fish]

amazing the gradients in temps these animals can withstand eh? Iguanas go on further north than where I live about 120 or so more miles... sometimes the winter temps drop in the 30's literature states they cant have it drop below 45 extreme low... goes to show we cant always depend on literature, but only use it as another tool.

I don't know how relative this is to the whole topic, but isn't there and island on the west coast of Florida overrun with Spiny-Tailed Iguanas? How north is this island? It was in the news last year. They appear to be thriving on it. I guess the locals are real pissed because they're eating a lot of vegetation and undermining the dunes and sea walls. I've seen Ctenosaura acanthura in the wilds of Mexico occupying the same habitats as Green Iguanas. I don't know how similar this island is to Ctenosaura's native habitat so I was just wondering if you know what I'm talking about Alex. I'm pretty sure the species of iguana living in Florida is Ctenosaura pectinata which is native to western Mexico.

 

[loconorc]

The spiny-tailed iguana also has a population in Brownsville, Texas. On my vacation to Cozumel island in Mexico, there were TONS. An outdoor restraunt called Coconuts had a huge 3+ foot male named Elvis that hung around for tidbits and was held for pictures, and my dad caught a lil' baby, which was oddly hard to find. I have pics from that trip when I was 8 if you want to see them.

 

[Vicious_Fish]

The spiny-tailed iguana also has a population in Brownsville, Texas. On my vacation to Cozumel island in Mexico, there were TONS. An outdoor restraunt called Coconuts had a huge 3+ foot male named Elvis that hung around for tidbits and was held for pictures, and my dad caught a lil' baby, which was oddly hard to find. I have pics from that trip when I was 8 if you want to see them.

Yeah I've been to Cozumel numerous times. There are LOTS of spiny's on that island. Did you check out the temple in the middle of the island? There are Spiny Iguans all over that thing. I also saw a Brown Basilisk there along with some large Green Iguans.

 

[varanio]

Seth, they are on sanibel yes, I havent been there ye, but heard they are all over the place. The established population of Nile monitors is also on the west coast there, near cape coral. In miami we have RTB, Green iguanas, caiman, spiny tailed iguanas, knight anoles, giant day geckos, and the list goes on. Two streets from me a neighbor saw an 8 foot water monitor cruising the canal. Gotta love this place.