Cause of death?

[xander]

for those more in the know, when you do a water change right after a feeding gars are known to regurgitate and sometimes die.(am i correct in remembering this?)

was wondering, is it the water change that kills them with regurgitation a symptom of death?
or is this isolated with cubans only?(think i remember reading that it was the cubans that had this problem, can't remember too clearly) with the swing in pH that causes death?

or does the water change induce regurgitation which causes death?

 

[pagojoe]

I don't know about death, but I do know that a stressed alligator gar may "purge." If you pull a large one into your boat, it will often puke/defecate everything it can, which is sometimes quite a lot (and always very foul smelling). I don't know about all of them, but at least some of them will live after purging. The big ones at Bass Pro Shops in Springfield purged before they were transported there, which was part of the reason for a 7.5' fish weighing less than 150 pounds (that, and the fact that they were recently post-spawn).

Cheers,




Don
(PagoJoe)

 

[Journeykc]

As you may have seen, I have a lot of them in a 125 gallon tank (not planning on them staying there, just a temporary home) so I have to do a 30-50% change in water every third day or so, and I did a water change shortly after feeding one day and had no problems with rugurge, however I did learn that I should have waited till the next day due to the amount of crap that almost made the water change pointless. All of my gar are regular long and shortnose though.

 

[Lucifersam]

In nature predatorial fish puke out everything If skared, because they can swim faster. So basicly it is just the WC freaking them out, its also i defensive manuver becaus it can cloud up the water alot. Just two cents from an avid fisherman.

 

[xander]

so puking is a response to stress, in this case waterchanges? then what is the cause of death? fouling of the water?

 

[Lucifersam]

Yeah, I can only imagine how painfull it is for a fish to puke, plus their Intestines probly get twised up... all i know is that pretty much every predator pukes.... just at diferent stress point.

 

[Ramesh]

Stress, a change in water temp and conditions probably all play some part.
I noticed my 24" plus gator defecates during or after water changes.

 

[alcohologist]

Yeah, I can only imagine how painfull it is for a fish to puke, plus their Intestines probly get twised up... all i know is that pretty much every predator pukes.... just at diferent stress point.

that's what i was thinking
plus the stomach juices and stuff getting into the water, huge ph swing and metabolite flood, i think that's what'd kill the already stressed gar.

set up a monster drip system NOW.

 

[E_americanus]

is this a hypothetical question, or did it actually happen recently to you? there are several factors, but here are the basics:

- a fish has been fed and has a full stomach. gars digest food quickly, but can also retain food in the gut for longer than 24 hours, so even a water change within a day or two of a heavy feeding can result in stress.

- stress from the water change, especially if it has been a while, or has been a heavy feeding, may induce puking in fish. Cuban gars, amongst the other species, seem most susceptible to this. this is likely a response to a change in chemical balance in the water (i have found this to most likely be pH).

- the fish is stressed and pukes, and the puking stressed the fish even more...if you have ever thrown up, you know it's a stressful process on one's system.

- on top of these stresses, the partially digested food will quickly degrade the water quality, lowering pH, increasing ammonia, etc.

- this all compounds on itself, and will quite often kill the fish.

best method i have found to control this (after losing more than one Cuban several years ago), is to use a lot of buffering substrate, with aragonite/crushed coral. this will buffer the water from massive pH fluctuations. also make sure to feed moderately before a water change (obviously don't to it the day of, but even if you are doing the water change within a day or two, feed moderately ahead of time...you could always fast your fish for a day or two as well).
try to be consistent with water changes, and test your pH to make sure it isn't fluctuating wildly.

hope that helps--
--solomon

 

[xander]

thanks for the replies! ill post a more detailed response when i get back, but just to clarify, it's a hypothetical question, my cubans are better than ever

i posted this because i seem to remember a post somewhere saying not to do WC's right after feeding as the OP had lost a few gars that way.