Chagoi and Hariwake
- Thread starter LiamIrons
- Start date
this guy certainly has an appetite, only got him a few days ago can't wait to see him grow!
Are you switching to koi now?
IME, vast majority of koi raised in US are runts. I think because koi are not culled like they are in Japan where 90% is eventually discarded to maintain the gene pool healthy.
IDK what it's like in other places, Europe, continental Asia, etc.
IME, vast majority of koi raised in US are runts. I think because koi are not culled like they are in Japan where 90% is eventually discarded to maintain the gene pool healthy.
IDK what it's like in other places, Europe, continental Asia, etc.
Most Koi here (except those that can be bought at garden centers and the likes) are Japan imports.
Btw the high discard rate in Japan isn't focused on getting healthy genes, most are culled because their colouration or body shape isn't up to the standard Japan has for these fish. These would still grow up to be perfectly and large (albeit not 3') fish.
Another additional piece of info, while the main selection process takes place in the 6 months following birth, the Japanese breeders sort out after 1,2 and 3 years, too. These are the fish that end up in Europe, the US etc. That's why the chances of acquiring a good fish are better the higher age the fish is when imported.
The japanese do keep the tategoi (potential koi) to grow out in mud ponds. If it doesn't past the first year culling they will be sold off as tosai (1 year old). The keepers are thrown back in the mud pond for another year. It is culled again and the best are kept while others are sold off as nisai (2 year old). You can guess that by now price is a little higher. Very few make it past the 3 year culling. 3 year old kois are sold as sansai (3 year old) which are about 20"-24" may be larger. These are very pricey show quality kois. I get a kick when people have home grown kois selling as show quality.
On koi buying trip in Japan, I've notice it is the Germans that buy the entire collection (whole pond). The American buyers got no chance against the Europeans who do not squabble on price.
Yes, the German hobby is said to have the best Koi outside of eastern Asia, if you look at Konishis website for example you can see that most of his very expensive and high quality Koi he sells go to Germany. Mine unfortunately aren't, they were bought as Tosai and therefore aren't the highest quality, but I don't care too much.
Thanks you guys. You are teaching me a lot.
Sounds like no one anywhere will ever have what the Japanese have.
The approach of the US koi growers is the complete opposite, it appears. They tend to want to raise as many as possible, no matter the quality, so that they can sell as many as possible. The whole country in inundated with "koi-resembling carp".
Sounds like no one anywhere will ever have what the Japanese have.
The approach of the US koi growers is the complete opposite, it appears. They tend to want to raise as many as possible, no matter the quality, so that they can sell as many as possible. The whole country in inundated with "koi-resembling carp".
Love your chagoi!
I have 4 koi from imported parents. Just pond quality, nothing real special. And then I have 6 major mutts from petco. Lol
I knew nothing when I got the pet store koi. Now they are here to stay.
I have 4 koi from imported parents. Just pond quality, nothing real special. And then I have 6 major mutts from petco. Lol
I knew nothing when I got the pet store koi. Now they are here to stay.
Yes, the Japanese keep all of the really good stock themselves for breeding purposes, they are even reluctant to sell potential breeders to other Japanese breeders.
Koi breeding in Europe is almost the same as in the US ; 99% of breeders just churn out as many as possible to sell in garden centers or lfs etc. Can't blame them really, as koi are quite inexpensive to produce yet command a much higher price as normally coloured carp or goldfish simply because of the name.
However, in the last 10 years or so a few have focused more on breeding some very good quality European Koi. It's hard for them since, as we mentioned, the good breeding fish are in Japan, but some like the Dutch "Yoshikigoi farm" have been achieving brilliant results and can sell their fish at prices similar to imported Japanese fish.
You'll find that aside from a few purists most koi keepers will tell you it's not about having high quality fish
LiamIrons
; sorry for hijacking your thread! It's just so rare that we get to have a good discussion about these great fish here..