Cloudy Water - Mature Tank

[GregRM]

Soooo....

90 gal tank - 4 years running.
2* Eheim 2217
1 airstone
surface modirate agitation.
WC = 1 times 80 percent once a week.

Nitrates have always been below 20.

So I had my girlfriend taking care of the fish. She overfed but i have done so too without problems. I came home and water was cloudy as it had been before a few weeks prior to that (first time ever).

I checked the water with a test kit 3 + years old. Ammonia off the charts, no nitrite but my Oscar, two silver dollars and 3 new clown loaches (5 inches) seemed to be fine.

As the clowns were new and acclimating and the most sensitive of my occupants I transfered them to my planted discuss community tank. 75 gallons with less filtration but all good water wise.

I changed the water 3 times all around 80% in the 90 gallon. Tested again and again and ammonia... then I tested with my other 'Master Test Kit' and might have found a trace of ammonia but not really sure... probably a 0 reading... the original test kit read high again (the better one supposably - forget the name).

So I'm off to buy a new test kit now.... but last night after barely feeding my O and SDs I wake up to cloudy water again.

Anyone have any insight for me hear. Is cloudy water = to ammonia? How could ammonia stay in tank after I cut off food and did those huge water changes.... Do those test kits expire?

Any help would be apreciated.

G

 

[ar0wan]

yes the kits do get old and go bad
this is not wat you wan to hear but this is wat I would do

increase biofiltration with another dedicated canister or HOB
drop to NO MOAR than 40% WC a week
every two weeks would be better

GL
HTH

 

[KaiserSousay]

increase biofiltration with another dedicated canister or HOB



Tank was doing fine before the GF provided feast, right?
Do the simple first.
Good vac of the tank.
You could have a bunch of gunk hiding that a simple WC will not take care of.

 

[GregRM]

2 2217's not enough?

I guess not as I got a new test kit last night and had ammonia once again.. My poor poor Oscar!

Last night I did another 90% water change and added stabilize... this morning the water was prestine. I guess something killed off all my ammonia consuming bb while leaving the nitrite bb alone. Or maybe they are dead too as no ammonia has been converted to nitrite food. hopefully I won't be able to see with the stabilize.

I thought 2 2217s on a 90 gal was more than enough but now I think I'll add another or maybe an AC500? The problem had to stem from overfeeding last week. Very unfortunate.

I am going away for two weeks and will be keeping my clown loaches in the discus tank.

During this time the 90 gal will get 1-2 feedings and 3 water changes (have someone coming in). Every day it will get the maintenance dose of stabilize.

The 75 gal planted will get the same water changes but it is horribly overstocked.

2 fully grown discuss.
7 panda cory's
6 sterba cory's
2 siamese algae eaters
3 ottos
3 dwarf ciclids
3 5" clowns (hiding and eating very little - acclimating).

The tank has a powerhead and one 2217 filter. Well planted with powerhead for surface agitation. The water quality has been pristine.

Would anyone do anything different? I don't want to put the loaches back in the O tank until I get back if possible and know that the tank has restabilized.

 

[ar0wan]

increase biofiltration with another dedicated canister or HOB

2 2217's not enough?

.. I guess something killed off all my ammonia consuming bb while leaving the nitrite bb alone. Or maybe they are dead too as no ammonia has been converted to nitrite food. hopefully I won't be able to see with the stabilize.

I thought 2 2217s on a 90 gal was more than enough but now I think I'll add another or maybe an AC500? ....

I said you wouldn't like my solution
but it's wat I would do
my bio filtration can adjust VERY quickly to something like an overfeeding
I have had toddlers in the house for 5 years

with 80% weekly changes you're keeping the tank so clean
that you don't have much culture
it's not necessarily dead
just inadequate to handle changes in load

 

[GregRM]

Welll. I did do 2-3 major gravel vacs with the water changes. Both my 2217s are packed with bioballs. One filter is supposed to handle up to 160 gallons. I have 2 and was shocked to find amonia in my tank. At worst I ahve done a 80% change over 2 weeks.

I think that the overfeeding last week was extreme... could the overfeeding actually kill the bb? Given the tanks lack of recovery I'm guessing I have very little amonia eating bb in my tank right now. I hope Aquaclear's stabilize does the job. In the meantime my Sd's will tell me if my beloved oscar is suffering as they will surely show the stress before he does.

Arowan: Why less water changes? My O and Sds don't seem to mind massive water changes. Half of the time I do two 80% changes in a row to make sure I get out all the guck. Is it to preserve the bb in the water... the way i understand it the water has next to nothing in it.... the gavel has some but not enough to worry about doing major gravel vacs and the filters are packed with it....

 

[GregRM]

'At worst I ahve done a 80% change over 2 weeks. ' - Meaning this is the worst case as far as how much WC I have done over the 4 years I have owned this tank.

I have done 5 major water changes since Friday... 2-3 major gravel vacs.

'

 

[ar0wan]

...could the overfeeding actually kill the bb? Given the tanks lack of recovery I'm guessing I have very little amonia eating bb in my tank right now....

no overfeeding won't kill the BB, the increase in ammonia will actually feed the culture
yes you have very little ammonia eating BB, hence the algae bloom

...
Arowan: Why less water changes? My O and Sds don't seem to mind massive water changes. Half of the time I do two 80% changes in a row to make sure I get out all the guck. Is it to preserve the bb in the water... the way i understand it the water has next to nothing in it.... the gavel has some but not enough to worry about doing major gravel vacs and the filters are packed with it....

It's about supporting the BB colony
You can keep a fish in a jar with no substrate or filtration at all
change the water daily and he'll be fine
miss a day, and he'll be dead

YOU are keeping the water clean with the WC
I keep the water clean by allowing ammonia to be produced in the tank
I have a very robust bio culture

I'm overstocked
I have very poor WC schedules
I Never clean the glass
I Never gravel vac
No algae blooms
No ammonia
No nitrites
No dieoffs

I agree with your actions so far
but if you want to prevent this from happening again
this is my recommendation:
culture somemoar BB

 

[ar0wan]

..Both my 2217s are packed with bioballs. One filter is supposed to handle up to 160 gallons. I have 2 and was shocked to find amonia in my tank. At worst I ahve done a 80% change over 2 weeks ....

sry thought I was done..
about those Eheims

Those who know me know I don't know Eheims
not a fan at all

rated for 160gal tanks? at 264gph MAX flow?
if your filter is level with the tank that's 264/160 = 1.65 turns per hour
your filter is not level with the tank, and 1.65 turns does not cut it anyway

For a healthy tank you need somewhere between 5 and 12 turns per hour
you have a 90gal tank and 2 Eheims (528gph)
that's 5.8 turns per hour so you're in the ballpark but not hitting any homeruns

BioBalls
BioBalls are great but it takes a crapton of them
1 Litre of Seachem Matrix (who didn't see that coming)
equals 170 Litres of Plastic Bioballs for equal surface area
I'm running about 4 Litres of Matrix, or 170 Gallons of BioBalls
wat do those Eheims hold about 4 Liters each? x2 = 2 Gallons of BioBalls.

 

[KaiserSousay]

I'm overstocked
I have very poor WC schedules
I Never clean the glass
I Never gravel vac
No algae blooms
No ammonia
No nitrites
No dieoffs


Your comments reflect the beginning fishkeepers misconception, that the bacteria colonies are in the water.
I am at a loss to understand how someone who has been around this forum for any period of time can still hold and repeat this as if it were truth.
Your lack of simple tank maintenance is, thankfully, an exception to the reasonable hobbyist’s routine and is also the way neophyte fishkeepers operate.
The fact, can only take your word, that your fish have survived to this point is a testament to the hardiness of the species you keep.
No offense.
Your tanks to do with as you will.
Glad your tanks are in a condition that suits you.
I would recommend others not to follow your example.