Considering Getting My First Ray

[Angelphish]

In a few a months, I'm going to start building a 900 gallon 8x5x3 plywood tank, and I'm considering using this opportunity to build the tank to specification and obtain a restricted species permit to own a ray. I'm looking into a Motoro, as I've read they're the most hardy and best beginner ray, but I have a few questions as to how to best keep them.

For filtration, I plan to have a pool filter, diatomaceous earth filter, and sump connected in series with a jabeo dct 20000 pump, as well as some form of nitrate reduction filter (denitrification filter, algae scrubber, nitrate reactor). Will this work, or is there a different method I should consider that would work better?

What water parameters (specifically nitrates) are needed to keep a Motoro ray, and what is the best/easiest way to maintain these conditions?

Will my current stock list work with a Motoro ray? If not, can I address it with decor or dithers, or will I need to remove certain fish?

Current stock:
Parachromis Motaguensis ~12-14"
Vieja Guttulatus ~12"
King Kong Blood Parrot 8"
2x Severum 6" and 8"
Firemouth 4"
Electric Blue Acara 4"
Angelfish 3-4"
Polypterus Teugelsi 14"
Polypterus Ornatipinnis 12"
Polypterus Lapradei Koliba 10"
Rope fish 12"
Papyrocranus Afer 12"
Sun Cat 8"
Synodontis Eupterus 8"
Hypostomus Plecostomus 16"
Brachyplatystoma Tigrinum 16"
2x Gymnothorax Polyuranodon 12" and 24"

Though motaguensis have a reputation for being quite aggressive, mine is quite docile, and I doubt he will cause a problem. I've had him for two or three years, and he still will often hide when I walk up to the tank.

 

[Dloks]

In a few a months, I'm going to start building a 900 gallon 8x5x3 plywood tank, and I'm considering using this opportunity to build the tank to specification and obtain a restricted species permit to own a ray. I'm looking into a Motoro, as I've read they're the most hardy and best beginner ray, but I have a few questions as to how to best keep them.

For filtration, I plan to have a pool filter, diatomaceous earth filter, and sump connected in series with a jabeo dct 20000 pump, as well as some form of nitrate reduction filter (denitrification filter, algae scrubber, nitrate reactor). Will this work, or is there a different method I should consider that would work better?

What water parameters (specifically nitrates) are needed to keep a Motoro ray, and what is the best/easiest way to maintain these conditions?

Will my current stock list work with a Motoro ray? If not, can I address it with decor or dithers, or will I need to remove certain fish?

Current stock:
Parachromis Motaguensis ~12-14"
Vieja Guttulatus ~12"
King Kong Blood Parrot 8"
2x Severum 6" and 8"
Firemouth 4"
Electric Blue Acara 4"
Angelfish 3-4"
Polypterus Teugelsi 14"
Polypterus Ornatipinnis 12"
Polypterus Lapradei Koliba 10"
Rope fish 12"
Papyrocranus Afer 12"
Sun Cat 8"
Synodontis Eupterus 8"
Hypostomus Plecostomus 16"
Brachyplatystoma Tigrinum 16"
2x Gymnothorax Polyuranodon 12" and 24"

Though motaguensis have a reputation for being quite aggressive, mine is quite docile, and I doubt he will cause a problem. I've had him for two or three years, and he still will often hide when I walk up to the tank.

I doubt you’ll get a Restricted Species Permit considering your a hobbyist, and trying to keep a “invasive species”. A fellow on here with much more means to get approved still got denied and he made sure his facility survived a hurricane. And as the saying goes. Don’t wait in the future to get the said better tank get it first because chances are it won’t happen.

 

[Angelphish]

I doubt you’ll get a Restricted Species Permit considering your a hobbyist, and trying to keep a “invasive species”. A fellow on here with much more means to get approved still got denied and he made sure his facility survived a hurricane. And as the saying goes. Don’t wait in the future to get the said better tank get it first because chances are it won’t happen.

but the investigator said on the third visit that Tallahassee (the Florida capital where the government, including FWC, resides) will deny my application. That is on the grounds that one cannot be in possession of illegal fish at the time of application.

The reason he was denied was because he was in possession of the illegal fish before obtaining the permit.

As for the permit, I plan to call them and see if I can get a permit as a hobbyist, but if not, I'll see if I can get one for breeding and try my luck at that. I have no plans on starting this process until I build the larger tank in a couple months. I already have the acrylic, I just need the plywood, sealant, etc... and I need to clear out the space to start building the tank. I wouldn't be able to get the ray before I got the tank anyways, as my current tank doesn't meet their requirements for restricted species.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

If I wasn't building an Educational Aquarium Attraction, applying for a permit would be moot altogether.

Hobbyists and breeders need not apply for a permit. You must be either an education venture or a research venture, an earnest one. Perhaps the laws in Georgia differ in your favor.

 

[Dloks]

The reason he was denied was because he was in possession of the illegal fish before obtaining the permit.

As for the permit, I plan to call them and see if I can get a permit as a hobbyist, but if not, I'll see if I can get one for breeding and try my luck at that. I have no plans on starting this process until I build the larger tank in a couple months. I already have the acrylic, I just need the plywood, sealant, etc... and I need to clear out the space to start building the tank. I wouldn't be able to get the ray before I got the tank anyways, as my current tank doesn't meet their requirements for restricted species.

If I wasn't building an Educational Aquarium Attraction, applying for a permit would be moot altogether.

Hobbyists and breeders need not apply for a permit. You must be either an education venture or a research venture, an earnest one. Perhaps the laws in Georgia differ in your favor.

Well nail in the coffin for this thread!

 

[Dloks]

The reason he was denied was because he was in possession of the illegal fish before obtaining the permit.

As for the permit, I plan to call them and see if I can get a permit as a hobbyist, but if not, I'll see if I can get one for breeding and try my luck at that. I have no plans on starting this process until I build the larger tank in a couple months. I already have the acrylic, I just need the plywood, sealant, etc... and I need to clear out the space to start building the tank. I wouldn't be able to get the ray before I got the tank anyways, as my current tank doesn't meet their requirements for restricted species.

FYI/FWIW I believe with plywood tanks glass would adhere better to the epoxy/sealant. With acrylic you would need to use a solvent/Weldon or drill holes and use nuts and bolts.

 

[thebiggerthebetter]

Well nail in the coffin for this thread!

Not necessarily and I, for one, always want to know more.

Perhaps Angelphish will continue on the plan or alter it or abandon it but I'd like to hear it and know it and learn about it.

No expectations, just saying we must share things of knowledge and substance to help each other grow in the hobby as well as pull the MFK out of the downward spiral and build on its reputation. That is if we care.

 

[Angelphish]

Not necessarily and I, for one, always want to know more.

Perhaps Angelphish will continue on the plan or alter it or abandon it but I'd like to hear it and know it and learn about it.

No expectations, just saying we must share things of knowledge and substance to help each other grow in the hobby as well as pull the MFK out of the downward spiral and build on its reputation. That is if we care.

The tank is getting built regardless of if I get a ray or not. The ray would simply determine how I set up filtration, maintenance, and stock.

As I get closer to starting the project, I plan to call the Georgia Department of Natural Resources to clarify the details on the wild animal permit. The only description they give is that it's for the exhibition or breeding of non-native species, but they don't clarify whether it's for commercial or recreational fish breeding. Also, the requirements for an exhibition license state that the exhibit must be open at least 30 hours a week and those hours must be reasonable, but they never said the prices had to be reasonable enough to attract visitors...

Before I start the project, I would like to learn as much as I can about rays, as there is a chance that I might be keeping one in the future.

 

[Matteus]

One thing about motoros is they grow fairly large. Some say 38”+. Once they get about 1’ they start to get chewy. As in they will chew up some of your other fish. I have a friend with a 22” female and she has eaten a 14” pleco, numerous polypterus and other fish that would typically not get eaten. So a fair amount of your stock would not work out long term.it will tak a bit of time to get this big though. My first marble motoro was roughly 9-10” in year one.

There are a few good stickies to check out right here in this section to get you started. IF you choose to continue with the ray idea.

Look forward to seeing your updates and possibly a build thread

 

[Dloks]

You got a picture of the acrylic sheet? How thick is it?