Cuban Gar setup?

[SimonL]

Ok, after that last thread I'm slightly worried now, as I'm hoping to get a couple more Cubans...So I was hoping Polypterus and Sol (and anyone else with experience) could weigh in with ideal water parameters? Are they simply sensitive to ph flucuations, or to low ph?

I never had problems with mine before (well, until the FRT ate him)...tank was 75 gallons, added 1 tablespoon of aquarium salt per 5-10 gallons. Regular gravel substrate with a tiny bit of crushed coral (palmful). Decore was a couple turbo snail shells, a piece of 8"x3" driftwood and a couple 3-4lb chunks of limestone "slate" that I excavated from my backyard. Temp was 78. I never really tested the ph, but changed 50% the water once a week. Filstar 3 filter.

Thanks for the input guys

 

[E_americanus]

hey simon,

i will try to type up more later, but i do have a few short responses:

- i think the crushed coral AND the limestone helped buffer your tank pH pretty well, which is why you didn't see any major problems (of course the water changes helped maintain it as well). so technically you were applying some of the methods we use with Cubans already.

- how big was the Cuban gar and how long did you have it? definitely sucks to have lost it to predation, but at least now the FRT is on it's own. in general turtles and fish are never a good combo, and FRT (and other turtles) are notorious for picking on gars.

- depending on the size of the fish, we can recommend tank size...floating plants will keep smaller individuals a bit calmer and less prone to skittish spurts and potential back damage. i kept both of my YOY Cubans in a 20g long until they were about 8-10" and then moved them to a 120g. the bigger specimens are in a 3' wide tank, and those fish are around 18-19.5" or so.

hope that helps as preliminary info!--
--solomon

 

[SimonL]

Thanks for the info, as always

5" when I got it in, direct from Cuba. Had it about three months. Put on about an inch or two (I'm not a heavy feeder). That was the first fish the FRT ever chomped unfortunately.

 

[Polypterus]

I keep mine similar to Solomon except for my husbandry practices vary a bit. I take a slightly different approach to them but then this is all by design.

I tend to put a lot of emphasis on waterchanges over filtration. In general I changeover a tank 100% once a week for Juvenile gars and once every two weeks for adult fish. I do feed my gars very heavily on prepared foods such as Pellets and gel diets.this does rapidly decrease water quality much more than feeding Equivalent frozen or live foods. Hence the higher waterchanges...

One thing to not do is to feed heavily and then do any large waterchange. I have found feeding lightly before a large waterchange is fine but if you feed heavily they do have a tendency to puke and this really can cause serious issues.

Filtration I do use is almost entirely Biological ( to an extent chemical due to media type.. See below).. I rely heavily on sponge filters and wet dry systems.

For Cubans I take the same general redundant precautions of adding a Limestone dolomite mix into the substrate to buffer the pH from any sudden changes. (Or I will use a custom crushed coral, Oystershell, dolomite mix I have used for years to the filtration system) I also add Marine salt to the system at about 2 tablespoons per five gallons. (Salt is my thing... I have no evidence it does anything with these fish but I'm doing so anyhow. It does not seem to have any negative effects)

To put it short though what is essential to keeping Cubans is stability of conditions. They do not tolerate quick fluctuations in any typical parameter. (Temp, pH, etc. ) and they do not tolerate quick influxes or spikes of Ammonia or Nitrites. All primitive fish share this to some degree but Tristoechus seem to take this much more seriously. (Simon I know you have some sturgeon so might understand this with them as well. DO for them is the big issue. it is very similar) What I suggest when keeping these fish is to be very aware of this need for stability and test the water frequently just to make sure everything is stable.

Do not try to cycle a tank with one of these fish. Any tank these fish go into should be established and well stabilized. You do not have to match a specific pH or Hardness etc. (Within reason) but you do need to just keep what you have level.

Following this you really can not fail to bad with the fish..

 

[SimonL]

DO for them is the big issue. it is very similar

I always presumed that being air-breathers this wouldn't be much of an issue, you learn something new everyday. I presume the DO being higher would prevent high carbon dioxide levels from lowering the ph (carbonic acid)?

Thanks again guys.

 

[demjor19]

I keep mine similar to Solomon except for my husbandry practices vary a bit. I take a slightly different approach to them but then this is all by design.

I tend to put a lot of emphasis on waterchanges over filtration. In general I changeover a tank 100% once a week for Juvenile gars and once every two weeks for adult fish. I do feed my gars very heavily on prepared foods such as Pellets and gel diets.this does rapidly decrease water quality much more than feeding Equivalent frozen or live foods. Hence the higher waterchanges...

One thing to not do is to feed heavily and then do any large waterchange. I have found feeding lightly before a large waterchange is fine but if you feed heavily they do have a tendency to puke and this really can cause serious issues.

Filtration I do use is almost entirely Biological ( to an extent chemical due to media type.. See below).. I rely heavily on sponge filters and wet dry systems.

For Cubans I take the same general redundant precautions of adding a Limestone dolomite mix into the substrate to buffer the pH from any sudden changes. (Or I will use a custom crushed coral, Oystershell, dolomite mix I have used for years to the filtration system) I also add Marine salt to the system at about 2 tablespoons per five gallons. (Salt is my thing... I have no evidence it does anything with these fish but I'm doing so anyhow. It does not seem to have any negative effects)

To put it short though what is essential to keeping Cubans is stability of conditions. They do not tolerate quick fluctuations in any typical parameter. (Temp, pH, etc. ) and they do not tolerate quick influxes or spikes of Ammonia or Nitrites. All primitive fish share this to some degree but Tristoechus seem to take this much more seriously. (Simon I know you have some sturgeon so might understand this with them as well. DO for them is the big issue. it is very similar) What I suggest when keeping these fish is to be very aware of this need for stability and test the water frequently just to make sure everything is stable.

Do not try to cycle a tank with one of these fish. Any tank these fish go into should be established and well stabilized. You do not have to match a specific pH or Hardness etc. (Within reason) but you do need to just keep what you have level.

Following this you really can not fail to bad with the fish..

this is similar to how i keep my tanks.

 

[xander]

i just realised those lines on their snouts are "expendable", and come apart a bit while eating...any reason for this?

 

[E_americanus]

i just realised those lines on their snouts are "expendable", and come apart a bit while eating...any reason for this?

i think you mean expandable; and this is just flexibility with the bony skull of the fish...if it were completely rigid the fish wouldn't be able to function as well...especially when eating. it is even more noticeable on gars with darker colored heads, as the connective areas in between the bones are often much lighter in color and show up when the gar flexes these areas while eating.


as for Cuban gar care, i'd say the comparisons richard made are right on, and both have proven to be successful. with the juveniles i changed their water by 50% every day and then eventually every other day, and then eventually every week while in the smaller tank.
filtration was an AC 300 which turned the water over quite a bit, and there were also a lot of floating plants (water sprite).
feeding was chopped raw shrimp, tilapia, and smelt. i experiment with pellets and my gars every now and then, but unless they are the sinking type i generally don't use them since the overflows in my bigger tanks would suck them up.
the bigger Cubans (4-5 years old) are treated the same as the other big gars in their tank, with the main factor being the aragonite based substrate to help maintain pH consistency--
--solomon

 

[Polypterus]

I always presumed that being air-breathers this wouldn't be much of an issue, you learn something new everyday. I presume the DO being higher would prevent high carbon dioxide levels from lowering the ph (carbonic acid)?

Thanks again guys.

DO is not all that important for gars as they are obligate air breathers. Comparison was more relating the essential need for Sturgeon to have stable high DO to the Cubans needing stable pH and water conditions.

You do have an interesting point there on higher DO resulting in more stable pH. It is known that in really weedy areas pH rises during the day and falls at night.