dead female :(

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gaz025

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Jun 15, 2007
312
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LEEDS UK
after many years of not a single problem . even after swaping tanks and tank mates. filters and filtrations systems. even after a move of house and a move to a bigger tank after . i have had a problem resulting in the death of my smaller female.

she has been fine up to the last week . eating searching for food etc.
she was on her own for a period of time before being put in the tank with the others soon as she was in the male took interest. but calmed down after a while

recent weeks she has been feeding but looking thinner although her tail was allways nice and fat no hip bones showing she looked thin

the male would ocasionaly have a go but nothing major . all other tank mates all fine throughout .

the last week she has been mostly at the top of the tank swimming . im not sure if this was to avoid the male or his attentions but just swimming merrily although towards the end of the week she would spend more time at the edges and top of the tank. i dont consider this odd as the others are active and swim on the top often . especially the larger female who likes to give the suroundings a good soaking from time to time .

yesterday was the turning point ,

she was at the top swimming but it wasnt normal
she seemed lazy if that makes sense . progressivly it got worse . swimming near the surface but in the current and increasingly slower.

a few hours later she was "cupping" the surface right way up ,but holding the surface without much movement. at first for jsut a minute or two but then longer a few minutes at a time .

as this happend i removed the male incase she was staying at the top to keep out of the way .

any injuries she had were nothing worse than she has had before . i would say there was very little wrong but moved the male out just in case .

a larger female still in the tank was and is still perfectly fine along with a couple of tank mates who are also fine . over night a small black ghost knife was in the tank too and was also perfectly fine ( talking 3 inch )

this morning things were worse . the lil girl looked terrible slime coat gone end of the tail white where the coating had gone and same on the spine edges of the disk looking terrible and places of friction were very bad .

ive sat and nursed her for the best part of today trying to get her to eat some bloodworm or mashed pellets but to no avail

this afternoon she could no longer right her self and i had to and put her back the right way up , i allways placed her in the direction of the flow rather than against it too . and on the side where it was returning so not a strong flow .

she seemd to come round a bit with but later was upside down again .

i righted her a few times and around an hour ago when breathing was faint i removed her and placed her in a poly box to pass quietly on her own .

a sad day
 
Really sorry to hear about this mate....

As you have described, no obvious signs of cause of death, or any other tank mates affected.

May some of the other experieced
ray members could have some idea of the cause.
 
Really sorry to hear about this mate....

As you have described, no obvious signs of cause of death, or any other tank mates affected.

May some of the other experieced
ray members could have some idea of the cause.
 
male has been re-introduced and all is fine .

i suspected the female that died was pregnant with her first litter . i wonder if there was some sort of complication but it doesnt make anything better.

there was at least one other ray in the tank at all times so im counting out water conditions . behavior in the tank has been reasonably normal other than the male taking extra interest in recent days but he does this from time to time , not sure if this coupled with another problem could have stressed out the ray too much or something .
 
as much as i didnt want to do it . i thought it might be beneficial to open her up after she was gone . i thought it might benefit someone else to use as comparison at a later date if nothing else

it wasnt a pretty thing to do and im not the best with organs and what not as it is.

as i opend up there was a black part near what i think is the intenstings at the middle just below the area of the gills ( so right at the top of the cavity ) as i said this reasonably small thing was black upon prodding it slighly it burst and green liquid came out . i wasnt inclined to smell it but there is a pic i took shortly after .

i know its not nice and i didnt like doing it . but the ray was recently deceased and it may help something somewhere maybe in the future.

resized.jpg
 
some thing i noticed are the obvious big pink things - i suspect these are unborn pups although one is much larger than the other .

you can see very faint circles that i have edited on .

green circle - very large part of what i think is the intestine .
red circle . - very small part of what i think is the intesting and a possible problem
blue circle - self explanitory after the above two

i think there was someone who commented on a similar pic recently and it would be nice to get them to comment again for me to see if anything was cause for concern.
 
sorry for your loss, but you will probably never be able to know exactly what killed her. best just to make sure your other rays are okay.

no sense in wasting time. just my 2cents.
 
no mate i didnt expect to get much from it tbh but the info could still be usefull to someone else at a later date.

i would like confirmation that the orange things are unborn pups and if they look normal as unborn pups as due to teh size i expected them to be more developed but instead they were more like a playdough texture inside . one seemed very differently shapted to the other also

it could easily be completley normal but would be nice to know from someone who has any idea .

part of the reason for opening her was in the slim chance that there were live pups insde . but i beleive the pregnancy has has some effect on the rays death.

still sucks whichever way you look at it :(

thanks for you comments
 
sorry to hear this mate. i had a similar thing my small motoro (male) died this morning with exactly the same sympoms you described, getting lazy going upside down etc and has been fine for ages. Theres nothing different in water chemistry, had been feeding ok and only tankmates are few rummynose cardinals and a female.if you do find out anything let us know as id be interested to hear what it might have been as its really confusing me cheers...
 
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