Do Festae get a bad rap?

[UnstoppableJayD]

"The Red Terror"- that is the common name for Amphilophus festae and in most literature it is well deserved. This fish has a legendary reputation for aggression and in most accounts I have read it is well deserved.. A quick google search and the first quote I find in regards to the species "Amphilophus festae is easily one of the most aggressive cichlids in the hobby." But my question here is it all a legend? I have a trio (male and 2 females) of Festae that have lived happily in a community setting for well over 2 years... The current inhabitants (for sake of this discussion let's ignore my over stocked over filtered 210 gallon tank size) 3 festae the male is about 12 inches and the 2 females 6 and 5 (the females were added after the male) respectively a 12 inch H.psatticus 4 Dolphin Pacu a 7 inch Dempsey and a trio of mini Marble Motoro. There is minimal aggression in this tank- the occasional skirmish but nothing earth shaking. Although this is the current occupants the roster has changed from time to time as things grew or my tastes changed but I have never had to remove a fish due to the festae's aggression. Quite the contrary as I had a Marmorata Pike (now that is an aggressive species) nearly kill my male festae that had to be removed. Now you may say "when they breed it is going to be a war zone"- well I have not seen eggs but the male and the bigger female have gone through the motions up to tubes down and still no issues. That could change if they achieve fry but we will cross that bridge if we get there.

SO is the Red Terror just misunderstood?? Am I just lucky? What are your experiences? Please include a time frame for you community or lack there of.

Thanks

And yes I should have cleaned the glass before taking the pics... but this was not planned...lol

 

[Freshwaterpredators]

Very good question brother!! I've kept hundreds of Festae for more than a decade and have wondered that myself. But so far I have concluded that with any species that it is up to the individual fish to determine attitude. I can say that for the most part they tend to always want on top of the hierarchy. I've also found that they tolerate some species over others. And yes once Festae spawn then all bets are off. Since Festae aren't a very prolific species, I have found by using tankmates especially tru midas which need to be smaller than said Festae can dramatically help breeding and pairing success. And once fry hatch then it's safe to pull other inhabitants. And after that I usually keep pair only tanks.
I'm sure there will be others to chime in with their expirience's and give good advice also.


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[verbal]

Sometimes fish don't read the books about how they are supposed to behave.

It could be that your tankmates generally aren't seen as competition so there isn't as much aggression as they would display in other situations.

 

[UnstoppableJayD]

Very good question brother!! I've kept hundreds of Festae for more than a decade and have wondered that myself. But so far I have concluded that with any species that it is up to the individual fish to determine attitude. I can say that for the most part they tend to always want on top of the hierarchy. I've also found that they tolerate some species over others. And yes once Festae spawn then all bets are off. Since Festae aren't a very prolific species, I have found by using tankmates especially tru midas which need to be smaller than said Festae can dramatically help breeding and pairing success. And once fry hatch then it's safe to pull other inhabitants. And after that I usually keep pair only tanks.
I'm sure there will be others to chime in with their expirience's and give good advice also.


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Good stuff... I know babies will change the whole dynamic- but that is not my goal and I am sure lots of people would love to just keep the fish but are scared off by the rep... what have you found to be tolerated better and what worse?

Sometimes fish don't read the books about how they are supposed to behave.

It could be that your tankmates generally aren't seen as competition so there isn't as much aggression as they would display in other situations.

Verbal- that is the point.... when is it time to rewrite the book? and to your second point the true parrot is the dominant fish in the tank.

 

[duanes]

I believe most aggression reputation, be it for festae or any other cichlid, has to do with tank size, and choice of tank mates.
You seem to have the perfect choice of non threatening tank mates, and a large enough tank size to allows for those tank mates you've chosen. And since your fish have been together a long time, formed the perfect detente combination.
Other than the JD, none of the fish would seem to me to be remotely thought of as competitors.
I have never found festae to overly aggressive, but in fact, to be very sensitive to stress induced disease if tank mates are not wisely considered.
But seems to me, most people expect to put similar cichlid species together in too small a tank, which is the reason the undeserved reputation prevails.
I have watched a pair of young, and small JDs in nature defend a 250+gallon area from all other cichlids, yet allow non-cichlids access within inches of their spawn, without challenge.

 

[UnstoppableJayD]

I believe most aggression reputation, be it for festae or any other cichlid, has to do with tank size, and choice of tank mates.
You seem to have the perfect choice of non threatening tank mates, and a large enough tank size to allows for those tank mates you've chosen. And since your fish have been together a long time, formed the perfect detente combination.
Other than the JD, none of the fish would seem to me to be remotely thought of as competitors.
I have never found festae to overly aggressive, but in fact, to be very sensitive to stress induced disease if tank mates are not wisely considered.
But seems to me, most people expect to put similar cichlid species together in too small a tank, which is the reason the undeserved reputation prevails.
I have watched a pair of young, and small JDs in nature defend a 250+gallon area from all other cichlids, yet allow non-cichlids access within inches of their spawn, without challenge.

Agreed - mine may be the "perfect storm" but exactly what you just said should be the points in the literature researching the species ... Not the mad beast it is made out to be.




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[Empyreal]

I believe most aggression reputation, be it for festae or any other cichlid, has to do with tank size, and choice of tank mates.
You seem to have the perfect choice of non threatening tank mates, and a large enough tank size to allows for those tank mates you've chosen. And since your fish have been together a long time, formed the perfect detente combination.
Other than the JD, none of the fish would seem to me to be remotely thought of as competitors.
I have never found festae to overly aggressive, but in fact, to be very sensitive to stress induced disease if tank mates are not wisely considered.
But seems to me, most people expect to put similar cichlid species together in too small a tank, which is the reason the undeserved reputation prevails.
I have watched a pair of young, and small JDs in nature defend a 250+gallon area from all other cichlids, yet allow non-cichlids access within inches of their spawn, without challenge.

Agree, everyones gotta remember that most people who have experienced Festae put them in a tank 125 gallons at the biggest and wonders why they are so aggressive.....this is how they received this reputation. Most people who keep cichlids are not like us (meaning most of us on this forum understanding large aggressive cichlids) So in other words, they are not as bad as their reputation to most of us, because we know how to reasonably keep them. If unresponably kept (community setting, in smaller tanks) then they WILL live up to their reputation. Just my 2 cents.

 

[FriedFlowerHornFillet]

I think your fish with the bolt cutter mouths might have taught them some manners LOL
Intelligent fish have personality -that's why we like them. Some aggressive fish just aren't I think some of it's nature and some of it's nurture. Space definitely helps.
I have a midas that thinks he's a corydoras. I strongly recommend NOT keeping cories with big aggressive cichlids but he's a weird exception. He will occasionally nudge fish with his head gently but that's as far as he goes to keep his territory exclusive and if a fish holds it's ground he'll back off- of a 2 inch fish it's really funny to watch

 

[mrrobxc]

My experience with festae has been similar to yours. Just average in aggression compared to other "like" cichlids in disposition . I have kept them with RTM, Loisellei, Midas, and likes and more often than not, they were not aggressive at all except the male beating on the females. I wondered the same thing. I think given their large adult size, they can do damage if they want to and in most hobbyists tanks less than 125 gallons, they have done damage

 

[pelleeklund]

Every Festae I have kept has been off the wall crazy. (Albeit I've only kept 3.) I still have one male, but the other two died warrior deaths overreaching in fights. I'm sure it's a compatibility issue, most of the cichlids my Festae were housed with were slightly bigger and equally dedicated top being top fish, it's just that the Festae didn't know when to quit. I still wouldn't pigeon hole the species but as far as my experience goes I'm stuck at 100% crazy. Kudos to you and your perfect storm, takes a good fish keeper to maintain the balance.