Hello, I have a pair of jaguar cichlid cichlids that have been breeding successfully since they were both about 3 inches, now the male is 8 inches and the female 5 inches (even though they started off at the same size) I was talking to a few fellow hobbyists the other day and I was surprised to hear them all agree that because my jaguar started breeding at such a young age theyll both never hit anywhere near there maximum size, I was curious to know if there was any truth to this?
Does breeding too young stunt growth ?
- Thread starter anzo1993
- Start date
They should, just going to take them longer to get there. While breeding they consume a lot of energy that would goto growth. I have seen it in my Sagittae, now that there is no breeding activity my male Casper grew a inch in a month when he was at 3/8 an inch a month gain while breeding.
Normally I do it every water change, when the water is low. I don't take him out or anything, just measure him on an end of the tank.
I've seen several discussions on this. Imo it's not as simple as some make it out to be. Fish growth is a balancing act, not a single factor like spawning. Because most aquaculture is for food production, fish growth has been studied for a long time and continues to be studied, everything from stocking densities, water temperatures, dissolved oxygen content, protein levels, overall feed levels, effects of this and that ingredient and at what percentages, and this for many species. For example, studies on temperature. Too low slows growth, higher than optimal increases food intake but also increases metabolism-- energy metabolism, not growth metabolism-- meaning there's an optimal temperature for growth for various species, lower OR higher slows growth-- so it's not as simple as some make it out to be, thinking you can just crank up the temperature and feed lots of food.
What I'm trying to say is growth isn't controlled by a single factor, like spawning age. Fish are breeding young-- okay, what species? Tank size? Temperature? What are you feeding? Water oxygen content? At what age does this species spawn in the wild? How much energy does the same fish in the wild expend defending territory, fending off rivals, building a nest, protecting fry-- vs. a tank where this activity may be limited or unnecessary?
Once females begin producing eggs, they're producing eggs, whether they produce fry or not, so how much difference really is there? That depends, are they mouthbrooders, meaning they may limit food intake at times?
Yes, in some species you can take an isolated female, no breeding activity or competition and she may outgrow another female in a breeding situation. But this could be misread as simpler than it is. One factor is you don't know the genetic growth factors of the two individual fish, meaning you'd need to do a large enough sample size to get averages before coming to conclusions-- particularly in some species I've bred, I get females of varying sizes, some smallish, in the exact same circumstances. This includes juvies before they ever reach spawning age. The other factor is what would be the natural growth rate for a wild fish that begins reproductive activities on their natural schedule vs. a female in a tank neither spawning nor expending the same energy as a wild fish?
So which one is happening in some of our tanks? Is the fish breeding in a tank stunted, or is it simply closer to what it would be in the wild, including seasonal variances in food, temperature and sometimes chemistry-- vs. a pampered, tank raised fish that may end up larger?
What I'm trying to say is growth isn't controlled by a single factor, like spawning age. Fish are breeding young-- okay, what species? Tank size? Temperature? What are you feeding? Water oxygen content? At what age does this species spawn in the wild? How much energy does the same fish in the wild expend defending territory, fending off rivals, building a nest, protecting fry-- vs. a tank where this activity may be limited or unnecessary?
Once females begin producing eggs, they're producing eggs, whether they produce fry or not, so how much difference really is there? That depends, are they mouthbrooders, meaning they may limit food intake at times?
Yes, in some species you can take an isolated female, no breeding activity or competition and she may outgrow another female in a breeding situation. But this could be misread as simpler than it is. One factor is you don't know the genetic growth factors of the two individual fish, meaning you'd need to do a large enough sample size to get averages before coming to conclusions-- particularly in some species I've bred, I get females of varying sizes, some smallish, in the exact same circumstances. This includes juvies before they ever reach spawning age. The other factor is what would be the natural growth rate for a wild fish that begins reproductive activities on their natural schedule vs. a female in a tank neither spawning nor expending the same energy as a wild fish?
So which one is happening in some of our tanks? Is the fish breeding in a tank stunted, or is it simply closer to what it would be in the wild, including seasonal variances in food, temperature and sometimes chemistry-- vs. a pampered, tank raised fish that may end up larger?
From the past, same topic, similar results .......
www.monsterfishkeepers.com
Slows overall growth, IME, yes. Stunts growth, no. I think that it often is as simple as some make it out to be, but also agree with much of what neutrino stated.
The main difference that I see is this, in nature most cichlids tend to only spawn during seasonal periods - in my tanks, they breed on a constant basis. For some that could equate to 10 times (or more) in a single year. That constant egg production definitely cuts down on their overall growth during a set period of time, because I don't alter the quantity of feed during pre-spawning, spawning, or post spawning. Add to that mouthbrooding cichlids, who take in little to no food for 3-4 weeks, on a constant basis, yet still produce eggs on a constant basis (unlike they would in the wild) and yep I believe that this does often come down to simple math. For males, not so much a problem unless you have a male that goes off his feed during this process.
This has been on my mind
Before I joined I used to comb through old interesting threads, in one thread which for the love of me I cannot find there was a discussion in regards to breeding and growth. In that thread I believe ( I'm not altogether sure if it was this thread or not) someone said that breeding cichlids at...
www.monsterfishkeepers.com
Slows overall growth, IME, yes. Stunts growth, no. I think that it often is as simple as some make it out to be, but also agree with much of what neutrino stated.
The main difference that I see is this, in nature most cichlids tend to only spawn during seasonal periods - in my tanks, they breed on a constant basis. For some that could equate to 10 times (or more) in a single year. That constant egg production definitely cuts down on their overall growth during a set period of time, because I don't alter the quantity of feed during pre-spawning, spawning, or post spawning. Add to that mouthbrooding cichlids, who take in little to no food for 3-4 weeks, on a constant basis, yet still produce eggs on a constant basis (unlike they would in the wild) and yep I believe that this does often come down to simple math. For males, not so much a problem unless you have a male that goes off his feed during this process.
