Hi All, & hello from OStralia heheh, would like some opinions please, on putting a 5" Festae, 6" RD, 4" Synspillum & 5" Escondido (all male) in a 6X2x2 without decor to minimize aggression. The RD & Festae are definitely the hard hitters here & to be honest, i'm not too worried about the other two fish so should i just keep the tank empty of decor or create a place to call home for the RD & Festae at either end of the tank. I'm thinking without territories to claim it might just work or will they eventually just kill each other anyway, & one more thing, is a 5x2x2 big enough for a GT, Fronnie & Polleni to be happy in. Tanks for any input guys...
Does zero decor mean zero aggression
- Thread starter PaleAle
- Start date
I haven't kept a tank with zero decor, so I'll be reading replies from people who do/have.
Studies I have seen and experience I've had with CAs is that extra decor (wood, caves, plants) reduces aggression. The amount needs to be adequate to provide safe havens and it helps a lot if line of sight is broken. Even bubble walls help.
With fish, there's always the risk of aggression and some fish aren't happy if they see any other fish.
Just my opinion and I'll be looking here for others.
Studies I have seen and experience I've had with CAs is that extra decor (wood, caves, plants) reduces aggression. The amount needs to be adequate to provide safe havens and it helps a lot if line of sight is broken. Even bubble walls help.
With fish, there's always the risk of aggression and some fish aren't happy if they see any other fish.
Just my opinion and I'll be looking here for others.
For me, it actually made it worse! I had the same idea but quickly changed my mind.
With little/no decor there aren't any distractions/breaks in line of sight or natural borders for them to claim. They have nothing but each other to focus on. It's kind of like being in a cell or room with several other people and nothing to do...eventually your going to have issues and with these monsters and their potential, it won't be pretty.
Just my opinion and my experiences.
With little/no decor there aren't any distractions/breaks in line of sight or natural borders for them to claim. They have nothing but each other to focus on. It's kind of like being in a cell or room with several other people and nothing to do...eventually your going to have issues and with these monsters and their potential, it won't be pretty.
Just my opinion and my experiences.
Thanks for the replies fellas, I kinda knew I'd get the above responses but was really hoping I wouldn't. Fish keeping starts to get really interesting when you've got too many fish & not enough space. I was really just trying too save the lives of other fish I have but might just have to make some sacrifices & get rid of some. Tough call on who goes & who stays but I don't think I Can get rid of my Festae as he's too nice but just doesn't have the personality of Gator, my RD. please offer up some opinions on my other ? About the GT, Fronnie & Polleni in a 5x2x2 guys. Thanx
The concept of no decor/territory reducing aggression definitely works, especially in an all male set up, but in order for this type of set up to be successful you must have a good number of fish to spread the aggression around. Four fish will almost certainly end in one fish becoming hyper dominant.
A couple of examples of large male CA cichlids that don't normally mix well in community type settings.
http://www.capitalcichlids.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4822&stc=1&d=1347110080
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/p480x480/530857_497368653648287_362542569_n.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GInxzK6ixhs&feature=youtube_gdata_player
A couple of examples of large male CA cichlids that don't normally mix well in community type settings.
http://www.capitalcichlids.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4822&stc=1&d=1347110080
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/p480x480/530857_497368653648287_362542569_n.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GInxzK6ixhs&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Haha RD, I get your point mate. I put the Red Devil in my community 6' tank with a few Americans including the 5" Festae & a sprinkling of mbuna, peacocks, & the King Of The Tank,,,Drumroll,,,,,, a 6" Frontosa. Anyway, when i first put the Red Devil in my Festae wouldn't wear it so I put him in a 4x2x2 to chill & now the RD is ruling the tank & is getting more ruthless by the day. I'm not sure what I'm gonna do yet, but I've bought too many fish & not enough tanks. Lesson learned here folks...
Whether zero decors will work depends on the size of the tank, number and type of fish you keep.
Mbuna keepers have been using zero decors approach for a long time and have mixed results. Mubuna are small fish but in the wild, each fish can stack up a 6 ft territory to protect their feeding ground. I tried once in a 55 gal tank. It worked for a while when the fish were juveniles. But as Mbuna grew bigger, they got meaner. When they reached 5 to 6 inch, a 55 gal became too small for the crowd of a dozen. Superficially, they appeared to be peaceful and in harmony, but on closer look, the fish were under stress and playing musical chair of death . As soon as one fish showed weakness, the rest would gang up on and finish him. The domino effect had just set in and over the next few months, the fish were murdered one at a time. I recalled when I did a water change and took my eyes off for 5 minutes, a fish was scaled to death because the lowering water level reduced their territory. As the number of fish declines, it becomes more dangerous as there are fewer targets to spread the aggression. But adding new fish to replenish the number would be just as dangerous as the crowd would gang up on the new fish.
Red Devels and other CAs are actually less aggressive, pound for pound, relatve to Mbuna. I have been to Shedds Aquarium and other public aquariums, and I was amazed how mellow CAs and RD are in big tanks. But big tanks in public aquariums are in the 1000+ gal range, not 200+ gal range in home aquairum. So what worked in public aquarium may not work in home aquarium, and the examples provided by the previous poster may not be relevant. In order to work you need to crowd 10 full grown RDs in a tank of at least 300 gal, and there aren't many hobbyists who have that size of tank.
Mbuna keepers have been using zero decors approach for a long time and have mixed results. Mubuna are small fish but in the wild, each fish can stack up a 6 ft territory to protect their feeding ground. I tried once in a 55 gal tank. It worked for a while when the fish were juveniles. But as Mbuna grew bigger, they got meaner. When they reached 5 to 6 inch, a 55 gal became too small for the crowd of a dozen. Superficially, they appeared to be peaceful and in harmony, but on closer look, the fish were under stress and playing musical chair of death . As soon as one fish showed weakness, the rest would gang up on and finish him. The domino effect had just set in and over the next few months, the fish were murdered one at a time. I recalled when I did a water change and took my eyes off for 5 minutes, a fish was scaled to death because the lowering water level reduced their territory. As the number of fish declines, it becomes more dangerous as there are fewer targets to spread the aggression. But adding new fish to replenish the number would be just as dangerous as the crowd would gang up on the new fish.
Red Devels and other CAs are actually less aggressive, pound for pound, relatve to Mbuna. I have been to Shedds Aquarium and other public aquariums, and I was amazed how mellow CAs and RD are in big tanks. But big tanks in public aquariums are in the 1000+ gal range, not 200+ gal range in home aquairum. So what worked in public aquarium may not work in home aquarium, and the examples provided by the previous poster may not be relevant. In order to work you need to crowd 10 full grown RDs in a tank of at least 300 gal, and there aren't many hobbyists who have that size of tank.
I have an 300gal tank with no décor. I have a number of cichlids in there male and female and there is mild aggression depending on the weather and change of water. There are pairs which clearly want to breed, if given a chance, but nothing happens. Some fish are clearly more aggressive in there then others. Namely a male Breidohri, Bifa and a male Amarillo, these fish are in the 10 inch range, but the ratio balances its self out for the time being.
I have come to the conclusion that even a 300gal tank, with all the expense that it involves running it is too small even for a couple of large pairs of vieja / paratheraps type cichlids if you are looking for them to breed. Like any tank, it looks big empty, until you start stocking it and its size rapidly reduces before your eyes.
I have come to the conclusion that even a 300gal tank, with all the expense that it involves running it is too small even for a couple of large pairs of vieja / paratheraps type cichlids if you are looking for them to breed. Like any tank, it looks big empty, until you start stocking it and its size rapidly reduces before your eyes.