Dropping BD prices

[DB junkie]

Bump. Where are we at now with ray pricing? Adult black diamonds barely fetching $1000. Saturated market with less of a demand. BD (and all mutts) barely fetching $500 with the exception of big spots. I guess the new end goal for a selective breeder is to produce a solid white ray or a white with black spot ray.

Prices here are so low it has a lot of people wondering what the point of even trying to breed rays anymore is....

As someone who has been keeping rays for a long time I can tell you this - the flippers are winning..... lol. People anymore don't give 2 ****s about quality... They just want cheap. Cheap means more. Makes a guy wonder why someone would try to breed quality pure rays when they will just be subjected to people trying to drive prices down cause their buddy's buddy knows a guy who's bringing in really cheap rays so they need to be priced accordingly to make the sale..... Breeder's tanks fill up and then they sit there wondering WHY THE HELL even bother?

We all knew this was coming. I think a lot of us just thought it was many many years away..... Nope.

I've watched what I feel to be some of our most successful keepers/breeders bail over the last few years. I think anyone that's been doing it for a long time is seriously contemplating the same..... Great way to get started - find someone like me ready to cash out and boom - turn key instant gratification collection. Sad but true.

 

[DrownedFishonFire]

A local importer I follow (for loaches) is importing 4-6" BD hybrids for 250-$450 a pop. And alot of people are clamoring over it. I'm not a ray keeper and not even want one in my tank I've not seen him offer other form of purebred in the last 2 imports but definitely does not rule out there are other variants out there.

 

[Lepisosteus]

A local importer I follow (for loaches) is importing 4-6" BD hybrids for 250-$450 a pop. And alot of people are clamoring over it. I'm not a ray keeper and not even want one in my tank I've not seen him offer other form of purebred in the last 2 imports but definitely does not rule out there are other variants out there.

That’s high for importing. You sure he isn’t bsing you to mark up price? My prices are about $50 if I buy multiple. Happy I left the ray game when it peaked. I lived through the prime years for sure.

 

[Lepisosteus]

Prices here are so low it has a lot of people wondering what the point of even trying to breed rays anymore is....

As someone who has been keeping rays for a long time I can tell you this - the flippers are winning..... lol. People anymore don't give 2 ****s about quality... They just want cheap. Cheap means more. Makes a guy wonder why someone would try to breed quality pure rays when they will just be subjected to people trying to drive prices down cause their buddy's buddy knows a guy who's bringing in really cheap rays so they need to be priced accordingly to make the sale..... Breeder's tanks fill up and then they sit there wondering WHY THE HELL even bother?

We all knew this was coming. I think a lot of us just thought it was many many years away..... Nope.

I've watched what I feel to be some of our most successful keepers/breeders bail over the last few years. I think anyone that's been doing it for a long time is seriously contemplating the same..... Great way to get started - find someone like me ready to cash out and boom - turn key instant gratification collection. Sad but true.

I agree with you. Happy I left when I did. Saw the trend coming in 2016 ish. Once I struggled to sell an F1 BD and p14 for $1000 I knew it was time. Sold my fair share of pure and hybrid pups and made out like a bandit. Hybrids were hot for a few years in 2016/17. Then everyone and anyone was bringing them into the country. $1000 quickly dropped to $500 which quickly became $250. The money was never my incentive but I just don’t see a desire in keeping ray’s anymore. Huge empty tanks to house an animal that has become less valuable than one of my coral frags and common as a goldfish.

 

[DrownedFishonFire]

That’s high for importing. You sure he isn’t bsing you to mark up price? My prices are about $50 if I buy multiple. Happy I left the ray game when it peaked. I lived through the prime years for sure.

? glad I dont buy Rays nor care about having them in my tanks due to my love of plecos/ catfish/loaches maybe that's why hes importing them all of the time. He probably makes money off them as long as there is customers he will continue to be successful but I'm wondering if hes just paying people more overseas for better cost of living. I'm not against it however he might be ETHICALLY paying those people honest living wage like the importer I buy from for plecos hence their prices being reasonable. I can PM you his facebook group but the hybrids he has in is pretty eye candy for a nonray person like me to look at as definitely am interested in further POV from you on this situation if its honest living or hes really ripping people off...

 

[DB junkie]

I agree with you. Happy I left when I did. Saw the trend coming in 2016 ish. Once I struggled to sell an F1 BD and p14 for $1000 I knew it was time. Sold my fair share of pure and hybrid pups and made out like a bandit. Hybrids were hot for a few years in 2016/17. Then everyone and anyone was bringing them into the country. $1000 quickly dropped to $500 which quickly became $250. The money was never my incentive but I just don’t see a desire in keeping ray’s anymore. Huge empty tanks to house an animal that has become less valuable than one of my coral frags and common as a goldfish.

Glad you feel as though you made out like a bandit and that your frags are worth more then rays...... lol. I'd love to say I agree but I do not. I have rays that someone could offer me DOUBLE what I paid and they would still be here.

I've never been in it for the money. Anyone can say that. Not many can prove it. I know I can. I never gave into the trendy rays starting out. I knew what I liked and always gravitated to them no matter the cost. I watched a lot of hobbyists "make out like bandits" and cash in their rays when prices began to tank. But the kind of rays that I've always enjoyed were never profitable. No one wants to spend money on brown rays, so there wasn't a bunch of people making out like bandits and cashing out when they became less profitable cause they never were.

These times are definitely interesting to say the least.

While it's frustrating not being able to sell what you breed, IF you're in it for the right reasons the frustration is quickly drowned out by watching the fruits of your labor and the hard work paying off watching the pups grow and develop. Pups have always been my saving grace in tough times. When I hate the hobby and want out I go clean tanks, enjoy a drink or 2 or 6, then head back to the tanks for feeding. Watching my pups pounce, the juvies move towards their prime, and the breeders bulge I know I'm screwed. I know I'll NEVER be "glad I left".

This guys love (and hate) for rays IS terminal and if there ever is a day when I leave them it will be gut wrenching AND heart breaking for me and my family cause I only see this guy ray free when he's in the ground. Maybe I'll get lucky and they'll come out with a vaccine for the ray keepers that are too stupid to see the writing on the wall.....

 

[Leo Messi]

Glad you feel as though you made out like a bandit and that your frags are worth more then rays...... lol. I'd love to say I agree but I do not. I have rays that someone could offer me DOUBLE what I paid and they would still be here.

I've never been in it for the money. Anyone can say that. Not many can prove it. I know I can. I never gave into the trendy rays starting out. I knew what I liked and always gravitated to them no matter the cost. I watched a lot of hobbyists "make out like bandits" and cash in their rays when prices began to tank. But the kind of rays that I've always enjoyed were never profitable. No one wants to spend money on brown rays, so there wasn't a bunch of people making out like bandits and cashing out when they became less profitable cause they never were.

These times are definitely interesting to say the least.

While it's frustrating not being able to sell what you breed, IF you're in it for the right reasons the frustration is quickly drowned out by watching the fruits of your labor and the hard work paying off watching the pups grow and develop. Pups have always been my saving grace in tough times. When I hate the hobby and want out I go clean tanks, enjoy a drink or 2 or 6, then head back to the tanks for feeding. Watching my pups pounce, the juvies move towards their prime, and the breeders bulge I know I'm screwed. I know I'll NEVER be "glad I left".

This guys love (and hate) for rays IS terminal and if there ever is a day when I leave them it will be gut wrenching AND heart breaking for me and my family cause I only see this guy ray free when he's in the ground. Maybe I'll get lucky and they'll come out with a vaccine for the ray keepers that are too stupid to see the writing on the wall.....

Very well said, I totally agree with you and I'm 100% with you on this. I've paid a decent price for my pair of Black Diamond Thousand Island pair and I gladly did so, because these were my dream rays and watching them grow up from little pups to subadult (and the male now even proven adult) age is the biggest joy I've had so far in my 19 years of keeping fish and seeing more and more Ti spots develop is just, ahhh, I just love it. And even though everyone around me knows it's an expensive hobby keeping rays, they fully support me because they see that I do it with a passion - and definitely not for some money, couldn't care less about that, nor do I care if the prices for pure and hybrid rays have been sinking by a lot and keep sinking. The opposite is actually the case, I'm happy that most rays are very much affordable nowadays, uncluding all kinds of albinos etc...

 

[Caveden]

non related to the topic sorry, are larger/ adult rays more hardy? i keep trying to own pups but they live no more than 3/4 of a year. i love rays but i find it so hard to keep even though im doing everything possible.

 

[DB junkie]

non related to the topic sorry, are larger/ adult rays more hardy? i keep trying to own pups but they live no more than 3/4 of a year. i love rays but i find it so hard to keep even though im doing everything possible.

Typically I'd say adults are more hardy, BUT if you experience loss after loss more then likely something is wrong - with the setup, the water, the source for the rays - something.....

Ray keeping can be tricky in the aspect that it can be VERY difficult to get proper advice cause every circumstance is different. I struggled to keep happy rays for the better part of my years in the hobby. I blamed the water and people told me I was full of crap for years. "Rays get used to whatever water they're kept in" Will NEVER agree with that statement. I believe here in farm country our water is polluted. So I chose the RO/tap mix route and will never look back. Point being what works for "everyone else" may not work for you.