Ebjd lip structure/shape

[Niki_up]

so this is an unusual question and obviously stems from watching my fish too much.

Below you will see four pictures

picture 1 will be a close up of a google image of what a Jack Dempsey’s lips should look like.

Picture 2, of the same image with the lip shape highlighted in red.

Picture 3, is my male ebjd

Picture 4, the same picture of my ebjd male. His lips highlighted in red. Then it looks like he has an extension, or hinge on his upper lip, highlighted in green. But then when watching him he has these flaps that look like they are moving like his gills, yellow arrows pointing to the areas that move. I know the flaps are not his nostrils bc I assumed his nostril was the black spot on his face.

Does anyone else have an ebjd with lips like his? What are the moving flaps? Are his lips a defect/deformity?

 

[Jexnell]

Here is my male I used to have that is now living the pimp life style at YankeeJack 's place. He has fathered three different spawns now with three different females that I know of.



It may be a slight deformation. But if he is eating fine I wouldn't worry about it to much. My Toni is deformed. She only has one nostrill. I didn't even notice it till she was some months old, it don't seem to bother her any.



See no nostril


See this side has one.

So if he is eating fine and gaining size I wouldn't worry to much about it.

 

[bigspizz]

I have seen this a few times. Always with fish I got from someone else. Could be from locking lips, or a sickness of some type. I am leaning toward the former.

 

[duanes]

Because EBJDs compared to normal JDs, are originally produced from a line bred mutation, it stands to reason that due to inbreeding, those mutations of the mouth and many other areas (such as the innate weakness in some) can be quite common.
There are even in nature, certain Cenotes in Mexico (long cut off from the main) by geographic barriers, where certain populations of JDs have an almost snub nose look, and some, more red than others.
Characteristics favored by certain environmental factors, enough so, that a few have over millennia evolved into what some scientists consider separate species (e.g. Rocio ocotal) is different enough from octofasciata to be given species status (by the non-lumper scientists).
In nature the survival of the fittest factors in, where of course in aquariums that weeding out of weakened, unfit individuals is subverted when we keep large numbers of a spawn alive.
In nature if 1 or 2 out of a spawn of 1000 make, that is success.

 

[Niki_up]

Here is my male I used to have that is now living the pimp life style at YankeeJack 's place. He has fathered three different spawns now with three different females that I know of.

View attachment 1316366

It may be a slight deformation. But if he is eating fine I wouldn't worry about it to much. My Toni is deformed. She only has one nostrill. I didn't even notice it till she was some months old, it don't seem to bother her any.

View attachment 1316368

See no nostril
View attachment 1316369

See this side has one.

So if he is eating fine and gaining size I wouldn't worry to much about it.

Haha Toni does make me smile!

 

[Niki_up]

I have seen this a few times. Always with fish I got from someone else. Could be from locking lips, or a sickness of some type. I am leaning toward the former.

I’d have to look back at other pictures but I believe he might have been born like this. I’ve only seen him lip lick once.

I hope it not a sickness! Eats well! Very well haha

 

[Niki_up]

Because EBJDs compared to normal JDs, are originally produced from a line bred mutation, it stands to reason that due to inbreeding, those mutations of the mouth and many other areas (such as the innate weakness in some) can be quite common.
There are even in nature, certain Cenotes in Mexico (long cut off from the main) by geographic barriers, where certain populations of JDs have an almost snub nose look, and some, more red than others.
Characteristics favored by certain environmental factors, enough so, that a few have over millennia evolved into what some scientists consider separate species (e.g. Rocio ocotal) is different enough from octofasciata to be given species status (by the non-lumper scientists).
In nature the survival of the fittest factors in, where of course in aquariums that weeding out of weakened, unfit individuals is subverted when we keep large numbers of a spawn alive.
In nature if 1 or 2 out of a spawn of 1000 make, that is success.

I was highly unaware of the separate species, I’m going to look at the differences!!

I did always think about that as well, we allow/provide favouring environments for the “weaker fish” to survive where they would have been pecked off the food chain in the wild...

 

[newworld]

I totally agree w Duane about the cenote "snub noses"..

 

[mattison187]

I agree with the line breeding thing. You see alot of chain store jags with mouths like that nowadays too. Doesnt seem to affect any of them ive seen like that though.