electric blue rams x german blue rams

[Laosy Fish]

Okay, not sure if i posted in the right place but since i guess im starting a breeding project this is the right section. It startd out as i was getting out of the hobby but jus couldnt fully get out. So i got myself a 75g well planted and and a bunch of EBR and GBR to give my tank some color. Turns out i know have a breeding project. Lol the reason for this post is to share what i am doing and to gain some knowledge from fellow hobbyist that have bred or know any helpfull info. here is what has happened.

I have 6 EBR (5m, 1f) and 5 GBR femals. Unfortunately the males wont pair with the female EbR. They will only pair with the female GBR. With that said i have 5 pairs of EBR xGBR mates. So far 3 out of th 5 pairs have spawned. One pair has spawned 5 times. And anotheb pair is spawning as i type this.

The pair that has spawned 5 times i let the parents try to raize the fry naturally but with no success. Witheach spawn both parents ate the fry. So the last spawn i decided to raise the fry artificially myself. So far so good. Well actually only 10 out of 100 eggs have hatched and are in between the wriggle and free sw stage. The fry are in a 20g with a sponge filter and methyline blu for fungus. Bare bottom tank and temp is at 87-88f degrees.

Anyone have any suggestions or advice on the fry for the next coming days and weeks? Today is day 3 for the fry going on day 4.


I have the pairs housed in a 75g, (2) 30g somewhat well heavily planted. Substrate is PFS and pebbles. I have more succes in them breeding in the 30g that is half PFS and half pebbles. They seem to be breeding on a leaf the first 5 spawns. This other pair that is spawning is on a rock. Not flat but round.

I have heard that they like to spawn on a flat rock or in a ditch. I have yet to experience thesespawning technics. In question, i am asking if anyone has had an experience of breeding these two sp. If so what is the outcome?

Any suggestions on trying to get the male EBR to pair withthe femAle EBR?

Any suggestons on raising the fry?

Is there anything you gyys see that i could be doing to improve on the success rate?


Thanks for your opinions and suggestions!

Odie

Btw, my compis still down but i do have pics just cant get them uplaoded. So sorry for the typos since im on the iphone....

 

[Laosy Fish]

forgot to mention thatbthe temps in the breeding tanks are a steady 86-88degrees.

Jus checked in the spawn action and it seems that the pair laid in the pit and round rock. Eyeballing it im guessing over 300eggs.

With each soawn the eggs seem to increase in amount and they pairs are spawning like clockwork. Everyweek they are spawning.

Should i lower the amoint of pairs per tank? Currentky 2-3pairs per tank. All pairs have their own spot to soawn but seem to be fighting for the leaf spot. Something about the oriental swords....

 

[chesterthehero]

why are you trying to breed them backwards... i dont get it..

 

[Toby_H]

It has been suggested, but (to my knowledge) that they spawn according to Mendel’s Genetics - Google with give you many other references but here’s Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendelian_inheritance

This is the same pattern that Albinism, Leucism and “the Electric Blue” Dempsey is passed…

I would treat the pairs as you would any German Blue Ram pair… I believe it is suggest not to house BGR pairs in the same tank unless it is a large tank. Much larger than 30 gal. I suspect 30 gal will be suitable for one pair long term.

It will be tempting to heavily inbreed these fish, as you will need to keep the het (heterozygous) for blue fish spawning with the other hets or Blue fish… Inbreeding in fish is not a critical factor in one or two generations but compounding this type of breeding can quickly formulate ill effects. I suggest you outcross logically and inbreed sparingly.

These fish are fairly new to the hobby and are therefore successful producing stock is still rare. You should be able to actually make a few bucks back on this project.

 

[Laosy Fish]

Unless you can get me a female than i dont see why not try my own strain? Breeders are hoarding females and i dont blame them. Sometimes you gotta take a step back to go forawrd.

Besides the strains thatbyou get from the lfs are si worn out and weak its hard to believe they live long. I have lost 5 EBR in the last two weeks for no appearant reason. Just belly up or in the filter. Do you kniw of anyone or anyplace selling EBRs that are smaller than an inch? Im no expert but an inch for a ram is somehwete near a year and half. By then the males are all drained. Just my 2cents...

And honestly it kinda hapened and i decided to go with it. Like i said i was getting out of the hobby. Jus wanted a planted 75g with some cool looking small fish. I stumbled on it and they started breeding. So why not? Still need feeders for my dats...

 

[Laosy Fish]

It has been suggested, but (to my knowledge) that they spawn according to Mendel’s Genetics - Google with give you many other references but here’s Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendelian_inheritance

This is the same pattern that Albinism, Leucism and “the Electric Blue” Dempsey is passed…

I would treat the pairs as you would any German Blue Ram pair… I believe it is suggest not to house BGR pairs in the same tank unless it is a large tank. Much larger than 30 gal. I suspect 30 gal will be suitable for one pair long term.

It will be tempting to heavily inbreed these fish, as you will need to keep the het (heterozygous) for blue fish spawning with the other hets or Blue fish… Inbreeding in fish is not a critical factor in one or two generations but compounding this type of breeding can quickly formulate ill effects. I suggest you outcross logically and inbreed sparingly.

These fish are fairly new to the hobby and are therefore successful producing stock is still rare. You should be able to actually make a few bucks back on this project.

Hey thanks and yes i already read that article. Tis is not my intention to make money or inbreed ti get a certain look. If it happens and they breed naturaly without me inducing them than so be it. Im not trying to cross to go back than firward on purpose herr. It happened in thr community tank. The only reason i started to put them in seperate tanks cause it seemed like 75g was to small for them. The got too aggressivr to a point where fins were missing.

I am yrying to pair my "only" EBR female with a male EBR. Its just thebmales keep beating her to the point where she hides on top of a leaf.

As for the gbr x ebr pairs. They are breeding and since i have foind no one else that has had as much success in pairing and breeding these twi rams i figure why not???

Just need some more info as there is limited infirmation on these rare electruc blues. Why pay $50 each at abstire when i can breed my own? Thats the fun part of having fish. Not jus eatching and feeding but getting a sp. To breed when little has been accomplished...thats fish keeping!

 

[Laosy Fish]

Morning update...

I found another batch of eggs in the tankthat wqs laid by another pair. I decided to pull this batch and leave the other batch in the tank with the parents. It seems that my only wild female GBR and male EBR are taking great care of these eggs. This is their first spawn and this pair is the only pair that has had their eggs make it the next morning. The male seems to be eating some eggs but my guess is that he is grooming the good ones and eating the bad ones. Other spawns the males ate Ll tye eggs by the next morning. So this spawn i fugure let nature take itd course like i did with the other spawns till they became unsuccessfull.

I realized last night that trying to keep the batches is becoming impossible. I currently have wll over 1k eggs is four different tanks. Im jus trying to keep them by age now. Soon ill be. Ulling some and kepping the pop low while feeding my dats. Im sure they will appreciate live foods.

Still cant get my female EBR to pair with a male EBR. Any suggestions?

ThNks,
Laosy Fish

 

[Toby_H]

I agree they are quite new to the hobby, but what information are would you be interested in hearing?

They are a variant of German Blue Rams if I understand correctly (as opposed to a variant of Bolivian Rams). Therefore they will have the exact same behavioral patterns as GBRs…

They will likely be a weak strain compared to the norm, as their line breeding has been based on coloration and not overall health, size or condition.

Their breeding pattern will follow Mendelian Genetics.

So while I agree that there has been a very limited amount of experience with the “Electric Blue Rams” specifically, we can logically conclude just about any information we wish to know about them…

Interesting project you have going on… best of luck…

 

[Laosy Fish]

I agree they are quite new to the hobby, but what information are would you be interested in hearing?

They are a variant of German Blue Rams if I understand correctly (as opposed to a variant of Bolivian Rams). Therefore they will have the exact same behavioral patterns as GBRs…

They will likely be a weak strain compared to the norm, as their line breeding has been based on coloration and not overall health, size or condition.

Their breeding pattern will follow Mendelian Genetics.

So while I agree that there has been a very limited amount of experience with the “Electric Blue Rams” specifically, we can logically conclude just about any information we wish to know about them…

Interesting project you have going on… best of luck…

Since never have ever bred rams before i wanted to see if anyone has bred rams before. Soecifically electric blue rams or a cris of ebr with gbr. Wanted to hear their experience or info. I was also hoping to hear about breeding gbr, and like you said maybe theur behavior in breeding might be the same.

All in all im trying to get my male and female EBR to pair. No luck or success. Ive tried putting 5 males and 1 female in a 75g well planted eith PFS and a temp of 88. no luck. They beat the crap out of her. I though maybe add some wild female GBR to the mix might help but instead i ended with EBR x GBR pairs. Lol oh well nature at its best...

Thanks fir the post!

 

[Laosy Fish]

Update....

I lost track of days so hete goes. I have free swimmers and im guessing about 300-500 swimmers. It actually worked out to put some eggs in thete as some of the fry are eating the bad eggs. So far so good... Temp is still at 88degrees

Checked on the breed tanks and sure enough i have another batch. It seems like im getting 4-5 new batches every week. Unfortunately its not the batch im trying fir.

2 EBR males killed the female EBR last night. It seems like she wasnt ther tyoe and they just didnt want her around. So my experiement of trying to the a F EBR to pair with a M EBR has ended. So im in search of more female EBR. Please let me know if anyone knows or have some for sAle. I put them in a 30g all by themselves with no success. Im wondering if i raise the ratio of females to males i might have better luck.

As for the pair with the wild female GBR and the male EBR tgat soawned two ago managed to be good parents. Both are still gaurding eggs and taking turns when its feeding time. But maybe half the eggs are still good. They have also transfered the eggs off the rock and into a ditch from what i can see or they ate all the eggs. Im debating on taking out the tank mates which is another pair of ebr x gbr. Ehat do you guys think?


Thanks, odie