F0 Flowerhorns!

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RD.

RD.

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May 9, 2007
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After a recent discussion regarding filial designations & flowerhorns I thought that it might be a good idea if I reposted a comment that I made in another discussion that took place in this section last year. Hopefully this will help clear up any confusion regarding terms such as F0, F1, etc when referring to flowerhorns. (as well as other hybrids)


In animals (including fish) the filial (F) designation has nothing to do with whether the parents are "wild", or "pure" or not, it simply denotes the first generation that is produced in a breeding program, and is a system used to keep track of the parental generation.

F1 = first filial, which designates that a fish is one generation away from the parental generation.

F2 =second filial, which designates that a fish is two generations away from the parental generation.

etc-etc


The parents can be related, unrelated, and even different species. The offspring can still be considered F1, which if one wants to get overly technical, in the case of flowerhorns they would be F1 hybrids, the same as the result of breeding a horse with donkey, which is an F1 hybrid Mule.

Not everyone in the fish keeping hobby uses the exact same definition or standards for the filial system that Mendel did, but that doesn't make it wrong.


George Reclos & Marina Parha wrote an excellent article on this subject.
http://www.mchportal.com/fishkeepin...-85/402-myths-in-fishkeeping-iii.html?start=2

HTH
 
I think we all know this. However in my opinion a term can mean different things in different contexts, and in fish keeping F1 is commonly used to denote the progrny of wild caught parents. Given that it's the norm to use such term, I think it's fine to use it in the way that we're all familiar with when it comes to fish keeping.
 
If I breed F1 festea with a wild Festae, I would consider fry as F1 also.. Because it is first generation from the parents.. Makes perfect sense to me..

I got some questions

descending from one original breeding pair of parents, I take their F1 siblings to make F2s, I take the F2 siblings to make F3, I take F3 siblings to make F4.. Now lets stop there because too much inbreeding is not good :)

With those above we breed:
F1 x F3 = what?
I take F2 x F3 = what?
I take F1 x F3 = what?

how about original wild F0 parent/grand parent/great grand parent X F1/F2/F3/F4 = what?
 
Ah, lolololol. Okay guess it's not that much of a common knowledge. XD

I think I may be using Australia's common knowledge in this case. I guess where it's not so established, it's different. Well in genetics P (parental) and F (filial) designations are generally not used by itself, rather they must be part of a larger context that makes sense.

For example,

"I took two wild-caught festaes and breed them, and then I breed two of my F1 offsprings together to produce F2 offsprings. From these, I selected an F2 female and mated it with the original male parent, and the F1 progeny of these two... etc. etc."
 
While what you stated is very true;
in fish keeping F1 is commonly used to denote the progrny of wild caught parents.
Click to expand...

Having said that filial designations are also commonly used to denote the offspring of many different domestic strains of fish, including man made species such as flowerhorns. The filial system is commonly used by most serious breeders, even with fish that do not exist in the wild.

That was my point when I originally stated that not everyone in the fish keeping hobby uses the exact same definition or standards for the filial system that Mendel did, but that doesn't make it wrong.
 
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