Feeding routine

[esoxlucius]

We hear the term "feast or famine" regularly when any threads regarding feeding are posted.

Basically, in the wild, fish are hard wired to eat as much as they can if the opportunity arises, because they don't know when they're going to be presented with another opportunity. This applies to many wild animals.

In the safe environment of the aquarium though, fish are fed everyday, there is no feast or famine, it's feast feast feast constantly.

Adding a fasting day is considered the norm now, even two fasting days. But even with two fasting days that is five days out of the week that they are still getting the feast feast feast treatment.

Overfeeding is probably one of the biggest problems in the hobby. It's not good for the fish, it's not good for your water quality, and not right good for us really when we're forever chasing the "correct" parameters.

I'm pretty much at the stage where I have four fasting days now, only feeding three times per week, and not right heavily at that to be honest.

I'm not seeing any visible downturn in fish health, nor activity levels. My goal, and I'm beginning to think it's wholly achievable, is to give ONE good sized feed per week, and have SIX fasting days. I'm very slowly working my way towards that.

Granted, it's not going to work with all fish, there will be examples where it could harm rather than benefit.

At the end of the day, one day per week feeding is as close to the "feast or famine" you're going to get and it's far more natural than feeding every single day.

Thoughts????

 

[GolemGolem]

Keep reporting. I've had fry lately so I've been on lots of tiny meals. With the kribs they like their awfsuch or however it's spelt, along with the otos, cories, farlowella, and swordtails too. So, I keep it a little overgrown and lots of light hours. I bet I could not feed for quite awhile and still keep the majority of my stock fed.
So I drop in some frozen spirulina brine shrimp - about half the krib fry swarm and are pretty bold with the HRP who is the current boss of the tank and is also always very hungry. These fry are about twice the size of the ones that don't bother and just keep pecking at rocks and leaves. Seem just as healthy though.

 

[neutrino]

What kind of fish, what age, etc? Huge difference in what's "natural" for a macro predator that may lay low much of the time and expend little energy until the next meal versus a grazer or micro predator that's active and constantly on the move. Energy needs, feeding strategies, digestive morphology, etc. are different between different types of fish or fish at different life stages. Physiology of some fish is suited to a routine of heavy feed followed by fasting periods, in others you'd be requiring the fish to make constant stressful, physiological changes to adapt to an arbitrary, unnatural cycle. Even in nature, for many species periods of low food availability constitute periods of stress for which a previous period of abundance prepared them and out of which they may emerge in poor condition-- low weight, susceptible to pathogens, etc. Just because they can survive "feast or famine" doesn't make it a desirable ideal to attempt to replicate, at least not universally for all species.

One example of why it would be a mistake to reduce the complexity of species, behavior, developmental stages, habitats, seasonal cycles, etc. to an arbitrary feast/famine feeding cycle based on a simplistic version of nature:

https://www.scielo.cl/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0718-560X2021000100125

The influence of feeding on intestine development has been reported by some authors (Day et al. 2014, Funes et al. 2014). The act of feeding and the need to digest food for energy supply induces the intestine development, which may occur with more intensity in the early stages of life (larval and juvenile stages). It may even involve the penetration of villi towards the lumen of the intestine, thereby increasing the organ’s absorption surface. However, fasting seems to have the opposite effect, with regression for the intestinal villi observed. Similar results were observed in birds (Chediack et al. 2012), reptiles (do Nascimento et al. 2016), fish (Hall & Bellwood 1995, Day et al. 2014, Chen et al. 2017), and mammals (Dunel-Erb et al. 2001). For fish, Day et al. (2014) reported that a reduction in microvilli size occurred soon after the onset of the fasting period and highlighted the relevance of this phenotypic adaptation to this environmental difficulty.

The decrease in liver weight and hepatocytes vacuolization over the fasting period indicates that juvenile (P. scalare) uses the energy reserves contained in this organ during these periods. Qian et al. (2016) indicate that metabolic pathways such as fat digestion and absorption, and glycolysis/gluconeogenesis are accessed during fasting periods. As in the present experiment, Gaucher et al. (2012) observed no decrease in liver weight in Hyphessobrycon luetkenii subjected to nine days of fasting, but when these fish were subjected to 16 days of fasting, a significant difference in liver weight was observed.

The reduction of the HSI in fasting indicates that this variable is directly related to the use of the fish’s energy reserves. This hypothesis has also been put forward for other species. Querol et al. (2002) suggested, regarding the Locariichthys platymetopon, that there was a direct relationship between HSI and the accumulation of energy reserves. These authors suggest that the increase in HSI is a consequence of a strategy used by this species to overcome periods of stress during winter.

Regarding longer fasting periods:

For the freshwater angelfish (P. scalare) juveniles subjected to the treatment T3, T6, T9, and T12, followed by 30 DF, the normalization of HSI showed the maintenance of liver energy storage importance for fish metabolism. Even after 30 DF, the fish subjected to T15 treatment had low HSI values, demonstrating the severity of the fasting duration’s damage.

I'm all for experimenting to see what works best, but I take into consideration the natural habits of the fish in question, considering that their physiology is so adapted in many cases. What suits my adult kapampa gibberosa, which naturally spend a good part of their day at rest, differs from my geos, which naturally spend much of their day foraging for food.

 

[FJB]

I have been feeding four days per week (tues, thurs, sat, Sunday) for about 3 years now. I find it much better in every aspect (fish health, appearance, water Parma). However, I do hang some pieces (relatively small) of nori in every tank, every week day (5 days per week).

 

[duanes]

As neutrino suggested
This type routine works especially well for adult carnivores (piscivores), those predators that struggle, to catch, and are evolved to eat elusive prey.
In nature if they catch a good meal once or twice per week, that's the norm.
For me primarily as a cichlid keeper, that is how I might keep, and have kept Parachromis.

But for those fish that are primarily vegetarian, or detritivores, those that constantly graze, and need for continuous more frequent action thru the gut, a small, less proteinaceous regular schedule might be healthier.

Same might ge for eartheaters like Geophagus or Cribroheros

or planktivores that live in a constant rain of soup.

 

[wednesday13]

Ive only fed once a week for several years now… i only ever fed my large catfish once a week for 10+ yrs. They stay full for days on end after a large feeding. Spent many yrs keeping/breeding rays also. Used to feed them 3 times a day… slowly declined over the years to once a day, every other day and even onto once a week. I had no trouble keeping them with a “fat back” and healthy on once a week feedings. Quality pellets keep fish full much longer than prepared foods. If your fish are on a pellet only diet once a week feed is more than fine for them. Ive seen no ill effects or slowed growth at all. When feeding more often they dont eat as much. They can only eat so much before they stop themselves in most cases to digest. My experience is with fish in the 18-36” range with this method. Small fish may need 1-2 times a week or more not being predatory or being able to consume enough food in 1 sitting. I “baby” my growouts or new fish for a while with twice a week feedings but its mostly for entertainment lol… honestly i only turn my lights on once a week these days also. IMO predatory fish are like reptiles… 1 large meal when they can get it then plenty time to digest. Again “growouts” may need more but sub adult/adult can go months and sometimes they do so even when food is offered.

 

[esoxlucius]

What kind of fish, what age, etc? Huge difference in what's "natural" for a macro predator that may lay low much of the time and expend little energy until the next meal versus a grazer or micro predator that's active and constantly on the move. Energy needs, feeding strategies, digestive morphology, etc. are different between different types of fish or fish at different life stages. Physiology of some fish is suited to a routine of heavy feed followed by fasting periods, in others you'd be requiring the fish to make constant stressful, physiological changes to adapt to an arbitrary, unnatural cycle. Even in nature, for many species periods of low food availability constitute periods of stress for which a previous period of abundance prepared them and out of which they may emerge in poor condition-- low weight, susceptible to pathogens, etc. Just because they can survive "feast or famine" doesn't make it a desirable ideal to attempt to replicate, at least not universally for all species.

One example of why it would be a mistake to reduce the complexity of species, behavior, developmental stages, habitats, seasonal cycles, etc. to an arbitrary feast/famine feeding cycle based on a simplistic version of nature:

https://www.scielo.cl/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0718-560X2021000100125


Regarding longer fasting periods:


I'm all for experimenting to see what works best, but I take into consideration the natural habits of the fish in question, considering that their physiology is so adapted in many cases. What suits my adult kapampa gibberosa, which naturally spend a good part of their day at rest, differs from my geos, which naturally spend much of their day foraging for food.

The very first sentence in the abstract for this experiment speaks volumes to me. "We tested the effects of fasting on the development of juvenile angelfish".

I wouldn't subject the juveniles of any species to a long term fasting experiment, and expect all the results to be positive, on the contrary.

That is what I was getting at when I said it could do more harm than benefit for some types of fish.

At the moment I am very much on the fence as to whether to take my experiment further, hence this thread for some further input. I don't have predators for one, which do seem to be ok with once in a blue moon feeding, as per wednesday13 experience.

I believe the fish I have wouldn't necessarily benefit from further cuts in feeding, though they are certainly ok with their current feeding routine. It's certainly something to think about.

By the way wednesday13 , thanks for the input. I didn't realise that anyone currently already feeds only once per week with no ill effects. I believe you are a predator guy, which fits in with what's already been said. That's very interesting.

 

[wednesday13]

The very first sentence in the abstract for this experiment speaks volumes to me. "We tested the effects of fasting on the development of juvenile angelfish".

I wouldn't subject the juveniles of any species to a long term fasting experiment, and expect all the results to be positive, on the contrary.

That is what I was getting at when I said it could do more harm than benefit for some types of fish.

At the moment I am very much on the fence as to whether to take my experiment further, hence this thread for some further input. I don't have predators for one, which do seem to be ok with once in a blue moon feeding, as per wednesday13 experience.

I believe the fish I have wouldn't necessarily benefit from further cuts in feeding, though they are certainly ok with their current feeding routine. It's certainly something to think about.

By the way wednesday13 , thanks for the input. I didn't realise that anyone currently already feeds only once per week with no ill effects. I believe you are a predator guy, which fits in with what's already been said. That's very interesting.

Any time man ??… yes, mostly all preds… ancients, cats etc… i do keep “dithers” barbs, geos, small stuff as a clean up crew. They get on fine as well doing their “job” of cleaning up un eaten food and turds on the days i dont feed lol… my RTGG has been on once a week feeding for most of its life with me 7-8yrs. Had no trouble reaching 20”+ in that time on my “regimen”…

 

[esoxlucius]

Any time man ??… yes, mostly all preds… ancients, cats etc… i do keep “dithers” barbs, geos, small stuff as a clean up crew. They get on fine as well doing their “job” of cleaning up un eaten food and turds on the days i dont feed lol… my RTGG has been on once a week feeding for most of its life with me 7-8yrs. Had no trouble reaching 20”+ in that time on my “regimen”…

It's funny you should mention your RTGG. Mine is 7 years old and about 20". He has a strange feeding regime all to himself now, though it hasn't always been this way. He lets me know when he's hungry, he'll glass surf and become generally very agitated. I'll hand feed him with all sorts until he's no longer interested, ie, full!

Once full, he will go a week or so, even two weeks before he starts showing any interest again. I put this down to him being an adult and not being particularly active, so he doesn't expend a lot of energy.

 

[wednesday13]

It's funny you should mention your RTGG. Mine is 7 years old and about 20". He has a strange feeding regime all to himself now, though it hasn't always been this way. He lets me know when he's hungry, he'll glass surf and become generally very agitated. I'll hand feed him with all sorts until he's no longer interested, ie, full!

Once full, he will go a week or so, even two weeks before he starts showing any interest again. I put this down to him being an adult and not being particularly active, so he doesn't expend a lot of energy.

I knew u have one about the same size/age as mine y i mentioned it lol. Wanted to let u know its OK to go a week but sounds like u already know ??. Nice to know urs chooses to eat that way anyway. On my “weekly” i do the same. Feed to the absolute max they will take. Pellets with a “treat” of shrimp. My light regimen being the same probably helps also. Lights on, everyones “up” and ready to slam down. I did it more so to save electricity on that end tho.