Festae spot question?

[Rockbass6]

I have noticed at some of my local fish shops that some of the festae or "red terrors" have a gold ring around their rear black spot, others do not. I don't want to end up buying an urophthouamis so can someone help me id a juvenile real red terror from the "imposter ones". I know when they are big the real ones have the v shape in the bar kind of like cons. My lfs was no help for me they tried to tell me a green terror was a red terror and when I corrected them the guy goes "oyea!" I dont think they have any idea there are 2 species. The terror I am looking at is a real dark color for some reason and they have it labeled as 5.99 in an south american assorted cichlid tank all of the fish are the same price, j dempsey con devils terrors all the same price. Its a huge ripoff on the cons but for the terror I think I might give it a shot.
Any help would be appreciated.
If there is a thread already on this topic feel free to link me.
Thanks in advance guys.

 

[Rockbass6]

This is what I am talking about. the first two fish have a rear spot the bottom does not. All fish are very similar in size, around 4 inches long.

 

[Jason_S]

I can see the eye spot on the bottom fish..it's just very faint. either way all 3 appear to be true festae.

 

[duanes]

This is an @ 2" juvie true festae

think it's a female

here's what I think is a male, almost the same size

 

[Hawkfish3.0]

The easiest way to tell is the spot on the peduncle. If it goes from top to bottom, it's an uro. If it only covers half the peduncle, it's a festae.

 

[Jason_S]

The easiest way to tell is the spot on the peduncle. If it goes from top to bottom, it's an uro. If it only covers half the peduncle, it's a festae.

actually to be honest I disagree...imo the easiest way to tell is the first set of vertical bars after the gills. on a festae these 2 bars will come together and form a Y while on a uro all vertical bars will be completely verticle and not intersect. especially on juvenile fish, the caudal spot on festae can appear larger in proportion to the rest of the body so in juveniles especially I prefer the Y bar test over the caudal eye spot test but that's just me

I'd still say all 3 of those fish are just stressed festae.

 

[DarthV]

Jason, if a fish is stressed out enough that the tail spot is washed out, good luck checking the Y at the head (or counting the stripes, which also can work). A quick glance at the tail spot should be good enough... if the spot is taking up the upper half of the peduncle, it's a festae. If the spot is taking up pretty much 2/3 of the peduncle in the middle, it's uropthalmus.

My f1 male barely ever shows his bars, unless he's angry!

 

[Jason_S]

Jason, if a fish is stressed out enough that the tail spot is washed out, good luck checking the Y at the head (or counting the stripes, which also can work). A quick glance at the tail spot should be good enough... if the spot is taking up the upper half of the peduncle, it's a festae. If the spot is taking up pretty much 2/3 of the peduncle in the middle, it's uropthalmus.

My f1 male barely ever shows his bars, unless he's angry!

the owner of the fish will see the stripes when the fish becomes comfortable and then will be able to see if the bars form a Y or not. I was just referring to the general notion that caudal spot is the best way to tell festae from uro...I've seen juvenile festae that people have sworn up and down were uro because the spot looked larger than it should but the bars clearly formed a Y and as the fish grew the caudal spot stayed proportionally smaller than the caudal peduncle as it should on festae.

and of course this only works with juveniles anyway because male festae hardly ever show their stripes as they get past say 4" or so, but then again that's another sure fire way to tell it's festae and not uro.

 

[Hawkfish3.0]

I do agree with you Jason, especially with small juveniles. I would also say that Darth V is right about the stripes fading out and making it hard to tell that way. One way or the other, there is a couple reliable ways to ID A. Festae. If you can't tell by the stripes, look at the caudal spot, and vise versa.

 

[Rockbass6]

What substrate would be best to get them to show more of their bars?
Darker?
The top 2 red terrors do seem to have the spot on the upper portion of their fins.