Anyone had this combination work? Are Festae's significantly more aggressive? Will the Festae take the Mayan's similarity as a threat?
Festae with Mayan?
- Thread starter Murrayt
- Start date
Since no one else has weighed in, I'll give my 2 cents.
I have kept both, but never at the same time, and have never, or would ever keep them in the same tank.
In nature you hardly ever see different species of the same genus, or simply similar looking species living together (especially predatory or territorial types). One usually drives out the other, or they interbreed and become something else.
In general, similar looks usually means competition, or hybridization, which I find equally as distasteful.
For example, I would never keep 2 Vieja together in the same tank, or 2 different species of Parachromis together.
Whether it will work for you or not, only time will tell.
I have kept both, but never at the same time, and have never, or would ever keep them in the same tank.
In nature you hardly ever see different species of the same genus, or simply similar looking species living together (especially predatory or territorial types). One usually drives out the other, or they interbreed and become something else.
In general, similar looks usually means competition, or hybridization, which I find equally as distasteful.
For example, I would never keep 2 Vieja together in the same tank, or 2 different species of Parachromis together.
Whether it will work for you or not, only time will tell.
I am with Duanes on this. I also have had both but never at the same time. Both are great fish by the way, with Mayans being what I consider much easier. There is already so much confusion with these two why risk them hybridizing by housing them together?
Does that apply to all species which share similarities or are closely related?
If you follow that logic, then do you discourage people keeping different species of peacock bass together...?
Blue acaras and yellow acaras? What about species within the Parachromis Genus...?
These fish all have the ability to hybridize...and just browse the forums... You can find many threads dealing with confusion over the correct identification of the very species I mentioned...not just Festae and Uros.
I think the OP will find that the answers he receives to his original post will be skewed according to each fish keepers individual experiences and biases.
I for one do keep both Festae and Uros together...have found them to co-exist just fine...and thus far these two species have shown no interest in "hybridizing" with each other...Not that I would mind one way or the other.
No risk...no reward...
Reward being a varied and exciting community tank which never ceases to bore.
Never kept the 2 species at the same time, so really can't say for sure how they would get along. All CA cichlids are very similar, and festae are very closely related to CA cichlids. There both big aggressive cichlids..but I think that is where there similarity ends.
I really question the notion that because a cichlid appears similar to people.....that some how the fish will see it the same way. I would think their vision and perception would be quite different then humans. I have often read on line the claim that green terror and Jack Dempsey make poor tankmates because they look so similar, lol. Kept the 2 together a few times with out much between the 2. Had a problem at one time with a GT picking on Oscars...until the Oscars got really big and kicked it's *** and then the oscars never concerned themselves with the GT afterwards. Of course nobody would make the claim it's because Oscars and GT look too similar to one another. I think it likely any problems between a JD and GT has more to do with both being aggressive and of similar size.
And really, not everyone sees Festae and mayan to look all that similar. I certainly don't and have no problem distinguishing them. People don't see fish the same way....let alone expecting fish to see other fish as we see them. All kinds of different man-made color variants as well albino/leucistic......and cichlids never have a problem recognizing their own kind despite the difference in color, pattern and look.
Festae and mayan are currently in generic limbo. Not placed in a genus yet since Kullander restricted the genus Cichlasoma to South American port acaras over 30 years ago. Hence the name "Cichlasoma" in quotations or the term "exCichlasoma". There is no doubt they will not be placed in the same genus. Festae's closest relatives are ornatum and gephyrum. Mitochondrial DNA studies show that these South American cichlids are most closely related to the Astatheros grouping . Mayan's closest relative is Petenia splendida. So while festae and mayan are closely related......amongst CA cichlids not especially so at all.
Any CA cichlid can hybirdize. But I wouldn't think that festae and mayan are anymore inclined to, then most other CA cichlids. Over 30 years ago my brother crossed JD x mayan and shortly afterwards I crossed Texas X mayan. A few years back I crossed dovii x festae. I've had texas pair up with jag and salvini pair up with jewel cichlid (lol) but neither pair laid eggs. Those are the only instances of CA hybirdization and pairing up that I have experienced in almost 40 years! I'm sure festae and mayan can hybirdize....but I certainly wouldn't expect it as any more likely then with other CA!
CA do not always get along, that is for sure. If they are in contention for supremacy of the tank....expect friction!! Of course once some one experiences aggression problems between festae and mayan, you can bet the claim will be made it's because they look too similar.
I really question the notion that because a cichlid appears similar to people.....that some how the fish will see it the same way. I would think their vision and perception would be quite different then humans. I have often read on line the claim that green terror and Jack Dempsey make poor tankmates because they look so similar, lol. Kept the 2 together a few times with out much between the 2. Had a problem at one time with a GT picking on Oscars...until the Oscars got really big and kicked it's *** and then the oscars never concerned themselves with the GT afterwards. Of course nobody would make the claim it's because Oscars and GT look too similar to one another. I think it likely any problems between a JD and GT has more to do with both being aggressive and of similar size.
And really, not everyone sees Festae and mayan to look all that similar. I certainly don't and have no problem distinguishing them. People don't see fish the same way....let alone expecting fish to see other fish as we see them. All kinds of different man-made color variants as well albino/leucistic......and cichlids never have a problem recognizing their own kind despite the difference in color, pattern and look.
Festae and mayan are currently in generic limbo. Not placed in a genus yet since Kullander restricted the genus Cichlasoma to South American port acaras over 30 years ago. Hence the name "Cichlasoma" in quotations or the term "exCichlasoma". There is no doubt they will not be placed in the same genus. Festae's closest relatives are ornatum and gephyrum. Mitochondrial DNA studies show that these South American cichlids are most closely related to the Astatheros grouping . Mayan's closest relative is Petenia splendida. So while festae and mayan are closely related......amongst CA cichlids not especially so at all.
Any CA cichlid can hybirdize. But I wouldn't think that festae and mayan are anymore inclined to, then most other CA cichlids. Over 30 years ago my brother crossed JD x mayan and shortly afterwards I crossed Texas X mayan. A few years back I crossed dovii x festae. I've had texas pair up with jag and salvini pair up with jewel cichlid (lol) but neither pair laid eggs. Those are the only instances of CA hybirdization and pairing up that I have experienced in almost 40 years! I'm sure festae and mayan can hybirdize....but I certainly wouldn't expect it as any more likely then with other CA!
CA do not always get along, that is for sure. If they are in contention for supremacy of the tank....expect friction!! Of course once some one experiences aggression problems between festae and mayan, you can bet the claim will be made it's because they look too similar.
BTW, pictured here from top to bottom are a
- Mayan
- Festae
- Con x Jag Hybrid
View attachment 1039110
- Mayan
- Festae
- Con x Jag Hybrid
View attachment 1039110
The only other CA cichlids that are quite this similar are the RD and Midas, which, to prove my point have become so blended as to have earned the title midevil! I for one do not want that to happen to these fish, therefore I will not keep them together. Others can do as they choose.
No, that is not at all the same. All the traits of midas and RD overlap. At least in captivity, they cannot be reliably distinguished. These are species that are very, very closely related. Essentially feeding morphs of the same thing that come from the same lake. That ichthyologists choose to draw a line and consider them separate species is fairly arbitrary. My understanding is that based on mitochondrial DNA, midas cichlid is actually more closely related to RD then it is to midas from other areas. Come from the same lake so have more recent common ancestry!!
It's true mayan and festae can be confused. So can a lot of CA cichlids. But they certainly can be distinguished and are not especially closely related amongst CA cichlids. Nor has it been shown that these 2 species are especially inclined to hybiridize with each other as a posed to with any other CA cichlid.
It has already been stated that all of these fish can hybridize, especially in the close quarters of an aquarium. That is what we are discussing here, not particulars of DNA in the wild.
My sole point is this. Do you want, down the road, to see posts where people put up pics of a fish and the stock response is miterror?
My sole point is this. Do you want, down the road, to see posts where people put up pics of a fish and the stock response is miterror?