FIberglass for plywood tank

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imusuallyuseless

Gambusia
MFK Member
Oct 28, 2009
286
3
18
San Antonio
So i'm plotting my next plywood tank, that will be somewhere in the 450G range. Thinking 8'x3'-4'x30"H, utilizing plywood w/3 glass front windows. I already have a 110G that I picked up from CL to use as a donor tank. Anyway, I've built a plywood tank before so I'm not worried about the structure of it, but this is the first time i'm planning on using epoxy/fiberglass to seal it. Was thinking glass + sweetwater epoxy, but I've never done fiberglass of any kind so I'm at a loss of what to get. Been searching ebay for it, but no idea how thick/heavy i should go. In other words, what oz/sq yd fiberglass cloth should I get???

Appreciate any input/advice you can offer me:)
 
I curiuos if you have built b4 why you just do not use what u are familuar with
 
imusuallyuseless;3798093; said:
So i'm plotting my next plywood tank, that will be somewhere in the 450G range. Thinking 8'x3'-4'x30"H, utilizing plywood w/3 glass front windows. I already have a 110G that I picked up from CL to use as a donor tank. Anyway, I've built a plywood tank before so I'm not worried about the structure of it, but this is the first time i'm planning on using epoxy/fiberglass to seal it. Was thinking glass + sweetwater epoxy, but I've never done fiberglass of any kind so I'm at a loss of what to get. Been searching ebay for it, but no idea how thick/heavy i should go. In other words, what oz/sq yd fiberglass cloth should I get???

Appreciate any input/advice you can offer me:)

Are you using the fiberglass to add just a bit of impact and abrasion resistance to the tank or do you want it more for structure?

I have heard mixed reports about using epoxy paints like Sweetwater to wet out fiberglass. Some say it can be used to wet out any fiberglass, even thick mat, others say it really should only be used on light weight cloth or roving.

Have used a lot of epoxy paint over the years, I would not use it to wet out matt or a thicker cloth. I would use it on light cloth or roving.

If I needed heavier weight fiberglass I would use a 100% resin system, either marine epoxy, polyester or viny ester.

To clarify the difference here, the resins are 100% solids by volume. Epoxy paints are only about 60% to 70% solids by volume with the rest being solvents and some pigments. The concern being that you can't get a thick enough wet film coat to saturate thicker fiberglass.
 
One more time (and it's just a suggestion):
http://cgi.ebay.com/AQUARIUM-TANK-P...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4838d63592


The above sticky on ply tank compilations has many examples of ply tanks. Mine has been done and tested:
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143924&highlight=206g
We covered the outside in 7781 med.weight glass cloth.

This is the basic setup I plan on using from now on. However, plenty, no LOTS of folks here have used lots of other stuff and have had great success with them. Take your time, do a search and use whatever you feel comfortable with.

The fact that you dont have a lot of glassing experience is a factor. It does take patience and a relative amount of skill. However, I've talked to people, and read the stats and even though the epoxy is a bit more labor involved it's the only way I'm gonna go. Good luck and have fun.
 
CJH;3799179; said:
Are you using the fiberglass to add just a bit of impact and abrasion resistance to the tank or do you want it more for structure?

I have heard mixed reports about using epoxy paints like Sweetwater to wet out fiberglass. Some say it can be used to wet out any fiberglass, even thick mat, others say it really should only be used on light weight cloth or roving.

Have used a lot of epoxy paint over the years, I would not use it to wet out matt or a thicker cloth. I would use it on light cloth or roving.

If I needed heavier weight fiberglass I would use a 100% resin system, either marine epoxy, polyester or viny ester.

To clarify the difference here, the resins are 100% solids by volume. Epoxy paints are only about 60% to 70% solids by volume with the rest being solvents and some pigments. The concern being that you can't get a thick enough wet film coat to saturate thicker fiberglass.

i agree epoxy paints are better suited for topcoating use a true epoxy resin for laminating or you could use cheaper polyester resins and topcoat with sweetwater to save money
 
nolapete, I've recently emailed and called distributors for PermaDri, but they said they wouldn't be able to get me any real information or quotes until tomorrow at the very earliest.

john73738, I have built a plywood 180G before, but I did that one as cheaply as possible. I used plain old drylok painted directly on the plywood and sealed the seams w/silicone. It worked perfectly fine w/o a single leak, BUT it was only up and running for a year. I'm confident it would've last a good while longer w/o issues. However, this tank I'm planning now is quite a bit bigger and will cost a good bit more so I'd like to go w/a more tried and true method in hopes I can get a LONG lifespan out of this tank. My financial situation as well as some life changes I've got coming mean that this will probably be the last BIG fish related expense I'll be able to justify for the next few years so I wanna make it last.

CJH, I'm more concerned w/using the fiberglass to add impact and abrasion resistance to the tank. I'm pretty confident in my ability to build the structure of the tank. My main concerns are possibly damaging the sealant while trying to install the heavy glass, as well as the possibility of heavy rocks/decor falling while in the tank. Also I'm not ruling out housing 'tank buster' type fish in this one, so really I just want piece of mind that my sealer isn't gonna crack or have weak impact resistance.

Buckdog, AMAZING build. Hope you don't get mad if I steal your stand idea. That would definitely get my girl's approval:naughty::naughty::naughty:


Anywhoo, the fact that I dont have ANY fiberglassing or epoxy experience, but I really wanna do right by this build so I'm weighing out all options to see what's really viable for me:(

As I said further input/advice most certainly welcome :)
 
So I got my estimate today. They were basing it off of 80'Sq I told them, which I overestimated to be on the safe side. My actual coverage I would need is closer to 66'sq, but I wanted to account for unexpected errors. They were reccomending a thickness of 80 mils. Anywhoo, 2 x 5 gallon PermaDri Pond Coat (trowel) 210.00 420.00
Estimated freight 90.00
TOTAL = $$$510.00

Unfortunately, that's too rich for my blood...
 
imusuallyuseless;3805640; said:
So I got my estimate today. They were basing it off of 80'Sq I told them, which I overestimated to be on the safe side. My actual coverage I would need is closer to 66'sq, but I wanted to account for unexpected errors. They were reccomending a thickness of 80 mils. Anywhoo, 2 x 5 gallon PermaDri Pond Coat (trowel) 210.00 420.00
Estimated freight 90.00
TOTAL = $$$510.00

Unfortunately, that's too rich for my blood...

80 mils??? Holy smokes.

By any chance did they say that was wet mill thickness or dry mil thickness? And is 80 mil thickness also recommended for the brushable grade of Pond Coat?

Let me do some calculations and get back to you about epoxy.
 
imusuallyuseless;3805640; said:
... basing it off of 80'Sq...

I'll stick with 80 sq. ft. and also use overkill for the film thickness.

For any resin system, you can coat 80 sq. ft. at 20 mils dry thickness with a gallon of resin, assuming a smooth surface. This also assumes the resin is 100% solids by volume so this does not apply to epoxy paints like Sweetwater.

Once you have a nice thick coat of cured resin is when you want to add a final layer of cloth for abrasion and impact resistance. You don't want to start applying cloth layers right to the plywood, at least for epoxy and probably not for vinyl ester and some of the higher end polyesters either. In fact at least two epoxy companies recommend fiberglass go on the OUTSIDE of the tank. I don't necessarily agree with this and think it's best in the final layers for the reasons you've already mentioned.

For each square foot of cloth (note cloth, not mat) it takes on ounce of resin per square foot of cloth multiplied by the ounce rating of the cloth. So one ounce cloth takes a fluid ounce of resin per square foot. Three ounce cloth takes three fluid ounces of resin per square foot of cloth.

So let's say you used 3 ounce cloth, which I tend to think would be sufficient for impact resistance, you would need 240 fluid ounces of resin to wet that cloth out. Or bit over two gallons in addition to the gallon you need to lay down your initial cloth-less coats.

Given that the 20 mil inital coat is overkill for epoxy and that 80 sq. ft. is an overestimate for your tank, I feel like 3 gallons of laminating epoxy would be a reasonable goal for your tank.

Please notice that it only takes a gallon of epoxy to get a sufficient waterproofing membrane but it then takes twice that much to wet out even a single layer of 3 ounce cloth. Given that some companies don't even recommend the cloth for plywood tanks I would encourage you to research carefully.

If you read AnythingFish's threads he only used a higher grade polyester and only applied cloth at the seams, not on the continuous runs of plywood. And his takes are massive.

I have had good luck with the tech people at West Systems although that was one company that had such good faith in their product that they recommended fiberglass go on the outside of the tank if it was even necessary. A company called US Composites has also been helpful so getting their take might be good.

One company I have not dealt with but have heard good things about is Raka. Likewise, the company that Buckdog used has a good reputation.
 
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