filter style question

[Istfensarion]

I have been reading up on DIY filter sump boxes and over flow skimmers. I would like to know is what is the point of skimming what does it do for the fish vs a undergravel style filter system that flows into a sump box as well. I was intrigued by all the DIY stuff they have for the filters and i have a new tank i'm about to set up and a tank i want to upgrade the filter on and i was thinking about a gravity fed undergravel and a skimmer would bold filters work well together i also learned that a drip plate helps with bacteria that helps clean waste witch is awesome so some input on the differences would be awesome thanks i'm excited to get started as soon as my son gets out of the hospital

 

[Burto]

Undergravel filter that flows into a sump box?

I don't think I've ever seen an undergravel filter system set up to work in conjunction with an overflow or weir. If you did such a thing and the overflow or weir led to a sump the undergravel component would be pretty superfluous.

At present the general trend is that undergravel filtration is outdated and there are plenty of other superior and quite cheap filtration options available.

If you want to set up an overflow on a tank or have a tank that's drilled and has a weir, a sump is a good option, especially for larger tanks.

Otherwise, canister filters or HOB (Hang On Back) filters are very easy to use and provide all the filtration you need.

'Skimming' could refer to filtration that 'skims' water from the surface, I've seen attachments for canisters and HOB filters that do this, a weir or overflow also generally draw water from the surface so could also be described as 'skimming'.
'Skimming' is more commonly used in reference to saltwater setups where protein skimmers are used to 'skim' dissolved organic waste from the water. Protein skimmers don't really work on freshwater.

 

[Istfensarion]

Thanks soo much for the lesson man. I always thought the under gravel filters style would help out on the waste and lesson the need for gravel vacs. So does that mean that you need a bio filter I think i might go sponge if that was the case and the undergrael isn't worth the hassle or is there no way around frequent gravel vacing on every water change? I just suck at it and always feel there is always tons of waste even after i do the vac and feel like i don't do a good enough job. Thanks again

 

[aclockworkorange]

A traditional undergravel filter actually traps stuff in the gravel and it becomes your bio media. This leads to the need for frequent cleaning. This can be somewhat circumvented by the reverse UGF system, but that still has its issues.
I would ditch the UGF completely, as would most people here.
Basically in your sump you would keep both pads for mechanical filtration and some sort of biological media for your bacteria to grow on.
My other recommendation is to not use gravel and use sand. This is a personal preference. With sand, all the waste sits on top of it and doesn't get trapped down in the substrate like with gravel. This, with proper flow, makes it quite easy for a filter to keep waste suspended in the water column and subsequently removed. Any excess is easily removed with water changes by skimming slightly above the sand's surface with the "gravel vac" tube.

 

[Burto]

What Clockwork said.

A UGF (Under Gravel Filter) is going to increase the importance and necessity of gravel vaccing since that's where all the waste is going to be trapped. A UGF is going to need to have the gravel bed cleaned and agitated regularly to work best.

I highly recommend sand as a substrate, or at worst 3mm gravel. I really hope that one day the general attitude of fear and distrust the novice aquarist has towards sand subsides and it replaces gravel as the standard. The advantages sand offers over gravel far outweigh any potential disadvantages.

 

[Istfensarion]

Ok great new info thanks!! So lol i actually don't even use gravel it is almost a bigger river rock i thought it would be better for it but i guess Sand is in this season i'll have to get some nice sand and use the overflow diy i have seen. Now time to look into Sump boxes and nice ways to build them thanks alot guys.

 

[will_i_am]

burto-how many gallons can your fx5 sufficiently handle? i'm looking at setting up a 250 tall with bulkheads for the sump and am interested in using an fx5 to supplement the sump i have that is rated for handling my 125 gallon tank. what are your thoughts on mixing the two and how can i make the inlet/outlet tubing from the fx5 "invisible"?

 

[will_i_am]

burto- am using an overflow to the bulkheads. and am just trying to keep everything as "clean" as possible

 

[Burto]

The size of aquarium a given filter can handle depends as much on livestock as it does on water volume, it will also depend on decor. An aquarium with growing plants, algae, rocks, driftwood, and substrate will be more stable than a bare tank since there's plenty of surface area in the tank for beneficial bacteria to grow on (you're not depending solely on the filters) and the plants and/or algae will consume some of the waste.
That said, my FX5 handles my 6x2x2 just fine by itself (though I've got another smaller canister on it at the moment seeding for a friend), but I wouldn't want to go bigger than 180G for a single FX5 unless lightly stocked. And I'll eventually be adding a second filter to my tank permanently just for redundancy.

Do you have the tank already or is it just what you're considering? I'm not clear on whether you're talking about a drilled tank with a weir or weirs (which 'overflow' and take the water to the sump) or a hang on style overflow which is generally use on a tank that isn't drilled. If you don't have the tank yet and want to use a sump I'd get a drilled one with weirs installed which should work out a lot simpler and cheaper than using external overflow boxes. Both weirs and overflows generally have bulkheads to which plumbing is attached to take the water to the sump.

An FX5 plus just about any sump should be adequate for a 250G tank as long as the sump is set up right. You'd probably want a 5000-8000 litre per hour return pump in the sump, a filter sock on the line into the sump, and plenty of ceramic or sintered glass media, that's about it.

It's possible to plumb a canister filter like an FX5 into a weir or overflow if you want to keep intakes and returns out of the tank, but I don't think they're that obtrusive. I think JK47 may have dealt with plumbing an FX5 in that way in his enormous thread: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=358278
If he did it was probably within the first 15 or so pages because I don't think I've looked further than that yet.