Filtration for Heavy BioLoad....

Energy

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Dec 4, 2005
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Tropical Minnesota
Why would you shut it down that would make it just like bio balls and just the water passing throw it would be enought to keep it alive much like a canister filter

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I only shut it down to occasionally run Prazi through the system. The k-1 reactor runs so much air through it that the meds will turn the reactor tower into a freshwater skimmer if I didn't. I can shut the air down for a few days while the meds are active but keep the water flowing through which keeps the biomedia alive. Then when the cycle is complete just turn the air back on-simple.
 

T1KARMANN

Giant Snakehead
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Sep 19, 2005
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i have talked with db about filtration in the past and value his opinion as he has tried alot of different things and is a great guy to run some ideas through. i was coming pretty close to finalizing my plans on my new tank and was pointed out a few failure points. so its back to the drawing board for me. point is db has tried and failed on some of his filtration methods and thats what makes a good ray keeper and someone worth listening to. learn from others mistakes so you dont have to make the same ones. build off others ideas and improve where you can

i agree with both t1 and db on a few things and disagree on others. i do believe in bioreactors as well as sand fbf's they both have their advantages and disadvantages. and the people on the other sides just look at the disadvantages.

t1 has a great setup as well that is good to look at because when your system is changing out 300 gals a day makes your system unique as not as many of us are doing that big of changes daily. so when you have a failure it is not as noticable as it becomes diluted with the constant freshwater. so other methods of filtration are better for this type set up as they can be easier to maintain.

we can learn from both sides as long as we read between the lines and sarcasm to what counts. i do enjoy seeing what everyone uses as each of us have our different methods some focus on heavy bio others mechanical and some chemical. i like to get bio happy with mine as i cant afford 300+ gal a day in my town when i get off well water. new set up will inclue biotower, k3 reactor, ceramics and possibly an sand fbf and a regular mech cleaning routine.

in the end its just back to the basics. do waterchanges, keep your mech clean, dont let junk build up in the bio areas and pay attention. if something seems off do a quick test and change some water take the extra ten minutes to save your stock. DONT WAINT TILL TOMORROW! and for the better of this thread if you are going to say something is wrong please tell us why and how you did your test to come up with it. doing this in a nice way might help as well.
If my system does shut Dow I need to turn the WC off fast or the water goes cold very fast that's the main problem


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DB junkie

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Jan 27, 2007
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T1, you don't know anything about me. Assumptions that I'm arogant about breeding rays is a joke I find funny. Ask anyone who knows me. I'm very humble. I openly acknowledge I'm a piss poor ray breeder. I've probably lost more then have made it and still have NO clue why I have so much trouble. Sound like a big headed raykeeper? Why do you think I'm so passionate about filtration and stuff like UVs? Issues between us stem from the fact that you are quick to call things like expensive UVs and K1 rubbish cause you don't need them for your big tank and light stock. Not many people here have nor want light stock. They want as many rays as they can possibly fit in the tank while keeping them happy and healthy. One says more, better, improve. The other says good enough, rubbish. Simple as that. Agree to disagree.

As far as the original topic...... Here's a good read. Changed my outlook on beads a bit. http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...TIMATE-FILTRATION-AND-EVOLVING-WITH-YOUR-FISH!!!!!!

As far as reactors, it's not simple as media and bubbles. It doesn't "just have to boil" it also has to survive being shut off, restarted, power outtages, and the most important thing is an alternative means to keep the media moving aside from air. Meds seem to alter specific gravity or something, most of us have used Prazi. This is not good for a reactor. Without a means to keep the media down in the water, the media surfs the foam right out of the container. Just dumping the water into the reactor from a few inches above seems to work great. More flow = better media tumble even without air. BUT this directly contradicts the flow rates K1 is designed for. It's not designed for the 10-20X flowrates raykeepers like to use on thier tanks. The reactors you buy run off much slower flowrates. Along with higher flowrates comes the media sticking to drain of the reactor. Real easy to reach disaster there too.... K3 is designed for higher flowrates but you give up surface area.

K 1/3 is designed to be used with thier bio chips..... Intresting stuff, bio animals that eat stuff up to like 5 micron?!?

The big deal with reactors is maintainance. It's the ability to remove all the "mum" by cracking a valve instead of tearing apart a bio tower or rinsing out rings. It's easy to clean which means it actually gets done and NOT slacked off. My rays used to get sick a lot. Everytime the filter appeared it could have contributed. Nothing wrong with bio towers or rings but if not kept clean then pores plug up, efficiency is compromised. Reactors knock off the ineffecient bio, only keeping new strong going, the rest gets sluffed off after it dies with the crack of the valve.

I'm a huge fan of the double sewn filter socks. I run the 100/200s but hope to incorporate smaller in the future after the 100/200s. Mcmastercar sells these double sewn socks. These socks take much longer to plug since there's so much more surface area. Just wash in the washer.

I run submerged meadia, bio reactors, and bio towers. Why subject yourself or your fish to the arguement of which is best/most efficient? Run them all and you're covered. :)

As far as the nitrate removal.... I'm willing to guess algae scrubbers will eventually shine. Pothos grow like crazy but don't seem to offer the effects we'd like without having a crazy ratio of plants to bioload. I'm willing to bet a "monster" size scrubber would offer crazy results. If we can get these to work then the drip systems can be turned down saving us all some on the waterbill. Maybe if we all start building them and share findings we could have them figured out in no time.

One things sure, with the shenanigans the utility companies are pulling filtration and this hobby are going to have to evolve or some of us aren't going to be able to afford keeping rays. Maybe we aren't far off from having to throw filter socks over Korilias and running giant makeshift HOBs.......
 

T1KARMANN

Giant Snakehead
MFK Member
Sep 19, 2005
10,103
108
147
54
London UK
T1, you don't know anything about me. Assumptions that I'm arogant about breeding rays is a joke I find funny. Ask anyone who knows me. I'm very humble. I openly acknowledge I'm a piss poor ray breeder. I've probably lost more then have made it and still have NO clue why I have so much trouble. Sound like a big headed raykeeper? Why do you think I'm so passionate about filtration and stuff like UVs? Issues between us stem from the fact that you are quick to call things like expensive UVs and K1 rubbish cause you don't need them for your big tank and light stock. Not many people here have nor want light stock. They want as many rays as they can possibly fit in the tank while keeping them happy and healthy. One says more, better, improve. The other says good enough, rubbish. Simple as that. Agree to disagree.

As far as the original topic...... Here's a good read. Changed my outlook on beads a bit. http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...TIMATE-FILTRATION-AND-EVOLVING-WITH-YOUR-FISH!!!!!!

As far as reactors, it's not simple as media and bubbles. It doesn't "just have to boil" it also has to survive being shut off, restarted, power outtages, and the most important thing is an alternative means to keep the media moving aside from air. Meds seem to alter specific gravity or something, most of us have used Prazi. This is not good for a reactor. Without a means to keep the media down in the water, the media surfs the foam right out of the container. Just dumping the water into the reactor from a few inches above seems to work great. More flow = better media tumble even without air. BUT this directly contradicts the flow rates K1 is designed for. It's not designed for the 10-20X flowrates raykeepers like to use on thier tanks. The reactors you buy run off much slower flowrates. Along with higher flowrates comes the media sticking to drain of the reactor. Real easy to reach disaster there too.... K3 is designed for higher flowrates but you give up surface area.

K 1/3 is designed to be used with thier bio chips..... Intresting stuff, bio animals that eat stuff up to like 5 micron?!?

The big deal with reactors is maintainance. It's the ability to remove all the "mum" by cracking a valve instead of tearing apart a bio tower or rinsing out rings. It's easy to clean which means it actually gets done and NOT slacked off. My rays used to get sick a lot. Everytime the filter appeared it could have contributed. Nothing wrong with bio towers or rings but if not kept clean then pores plug up, efficiency is compromised. Reactors knock off the ineffecient bio, only keeping new strong going, the rest gets sluffed off after it dies with the crack of the valve.

I'm a huge fan of the double sewn filter socks. I run the 100/200s but hope to incorporate smaller in the future after the 100/200s. Mcmastercar sells these double sewn socks. These socks take much longer to plug since there's so much more surface area. Just wash in the washer.

I run submerged meadia, bio reactors, and bio towers. Why subject yourself or your fish to the arguement of which is best/most efficient? Run them all and you're covered. :)

As far as the nitrate removal.... I'm willing to guess algae scrubbers will eventually shine. Pothos grow like crazy but don't seem to offer the effects we'd like without having a crazy ratio of plants to bioload. I'm willing to bet a "monster" size scrubber would offer crazy results. If we can get these to work then the drip systems can be turned down saving us all some on the waterbill. Maybe if we all start building them and share findings we could have them figured out in no time.

One things sure, with the shenanigans the utility companies are pulling filtration and this hobby are going to have to evolve or some of us aren't going to be able to afford keeping rays. Maybe we aren't far off from having to throw filter socks over Korilias and running giant makeshift HOBs.......
just like you dont know nothing about me but i dont have to write a book to point that out


you say you are very interested in filteration but you have lost so many rays why dont you take note of some of my advice rather than slag off everything i say as i have not lost any rays in over 20 years so i must be doing something right

you say you need to spend $2k on a UV i say you dont you say moving bed is great i say its not we are both allowed to state our opinions im not forcing anyone to take my advice im just giving my opinion which we are all able to do if it be cars drills dog food fish food or filteration
 

Miguel

Ole Dawg
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Dec 28, 2006
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Very much south..
Guys please go on.

How would one go about building an efficient algae scrubber?
 

T1KARMANN

Giant Snakehead
MFK Member
Sep 19, 2005
10,103
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Guys please go on.

How would one go about building an efficient algae scrubber?
i use the big magfloat it has a blade on the front edge :)

a little bit of banter is good for a forum
 

Energy

Bronze Tier VIP
MFK Member
Dec 4, 2005
517
73
561
Tropical Minnesota
Guys please go on.

How would one go about building an efficient algae scrubber?
As far as the nitrate removal.... I'm willing to guess algae scrubbers will eventually shine. Pothos grow like crazy but don't seem to offer the effects we'd like without having a crazy ratio of plants to bioload. I'm willing to bet a "monster" size scrubber would offer crazy results. If we can get these to work then the drip systems can be turned down saving us all some on the waterbill. Maybe if we all start building them and share findings we could have them figured out in no time.
I think once we can get an efficient design for nitrate removal we will have the last piece to the filtration puzzle. We all run different versions of filtration that do the same thing.....clean our water. But few work at effeciently removing Nitrates. I run tons of submerged plants- I have huge plants growing all over my filtration room-one point about plants- you can't have ammonia or nitrite- that is their first line of food that they break down immediately. But plants sometimes can't keep up with nitrate.
 

Miguel

Ole Dawg
MFK Member
Dec 28, 2006
15,864
27
89
Very much south..
I think once we can get an efficient design for nitrate removal we will have the last piece to the filtration puzzle. We all run different versions of filtration that do the same thing.....clean our water. But few work at effeciently removing Nitrates. I run tons of submerged plants- I have huge plants growing all over my filtration room-one point about plants- you can't have ammonia or nitrite- that is their first line of food that they break down immediately. But plants sometimes can't keep up with nitrate.
Very well put!

I feel my photos do not do the trick as good as i wanted, and been using them for years on end!

What is a Magfloat, Richard?
 

STINGRAYED

Candiru
MFK Member
Mar 26, 2012
523
149
46
us
just like you dont know nothing about me but i dont have to write a book to point that out


you say you are very interested in filteration but you have lost so many rays why dont you take note of some of my advice rather than slag off everything i say as i have not lost any rays in over 20 years so i must be doing something right

you say you need to spend $2k on a UV i say you dont you say moving bed is great i say its not we are both allowed to state our opinions im not forcing anyone to take my advice im just giving my opinion which we are all able to do if it be cars drills dog food fish food or filteration
I say your Wrong T1 About UV And Moving bed ..You keep stating $2000 dollers for a Uv Well how much do you have invested in fish T1 ??I bet more then $2000 Well then probably sound investment then ehh???You can get a quality UV for Less then that anyway Much less So That is Rubbsh LOL!!!!;) i Also Closed Loop Filtration will eventually overtake moving bed type filtration in the end it might take a decade or so But it will Dominate filtration eventually it's a fact!!!I have just Rays for a relativley short time less then 3 years My group Of marbles being 2 male three female Adults Also have 2 more females still to young to produce that being said Last march was the first litter i have seen in my tanks Since march 15th 2012 my group has produced 51 pure marble pups i would say that kind of production or result should be proof enough Happy fish good results in litters and like clockwork every 90 days give or take On top of the that I believe i am producing top notch Quality Pups I just shipped two of my Offspring to a member on here i believe he was very pleased with the quality Maybe i can coax him into posting a pic or two I don't know But 1 thing i am convinced of the end Result A quality pup directly is influenced by water quality and nobody can convince me otherwise if you produce an average pup in great water it can be a very good looking Adult An exeptional pup "can " be the very best Nutrition and environment can and will determine the outcome of a fish....
 

T1KARMANN

Giant Snakehead
MFK Member
Sep 19, 2005
10,103
108
147
54
London UK
I say your Wrong T1 About UV And Moving bed ..You keep stating $2000 dollers for a Uv Well how much do you have invested in fish T1 ??I bet more then $2000 Well then probably sound investment then ehh???You can get a quality UV for Less then that anyway Much less So That is Rubbsh LOL!!!!;) i Also Closed Loop Filtration will eventually overtake moving bed type filtration in the end it might take a decade or so But it will Dominate filtration eventually it's a fact!!!I have just Rays for a relativley short time less then 3 years My group Of marbles being 2 male three female Adults Also have 2 more females still to young to produce that being said Last march was the first litter i have seen in my tanks Since march 15th 2012 my group has produced 51 pure marble pups i would say that kind of production or result should be proof enough Happy fish good results in litters and like clockwork every 90 days give or take On top of the that I believe i am producing top notch Quality Pups I just shipped two of my Offspring to a member on here i believe he was very pleased with the quality Maybe i can coax him into posting a pic or two I don't know But 1 thing i am convinced of the end Result A quality pup directly is influenced by water quality and nobody can convince me otherwise if you produce an average pup in great water it can be a very good looking Adult An exeptional pup "can " be the very best Nutrition and environment can and will determine the outcome of a fish....

why would i need to spend $2k plus on uv when i can spend $800 on a UV that does the same job

you can spend top money on a rolls royce car or much less on a ford when you drive them they do the same job get you from A to B

WE DONT KEEP FISH WE KEEP WATER
 
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