Filtration for large tank

[duanes]

I often have 3 or 4 tanks to a sump, so multiple entry points. I might put a sock in each corner of the sump where water from the tank enters.
To the OPs original question
I prefer sumps because all the mechanical gear is not in the main display view.
Fresh water or salt, the concept is the same.
To provide excess amounts of space for filtration not feasible in the confines tiny HOBs or cans.
and Heaters, socks, pumps, media, all those things that distract from a natural vista are out of view.
It also means I can easily do maintenance on these items by just reaching in the sump.
I normally do not put sumps directly below my tanks, I don't like how cramped it gets trying to get my arms under the stand.
As long as gravity is taken into account they can be off to the side, or behind a wall, in another room, or even on a floor below.

I am also a sucker for trying any new filtration techniques, so in a sump with enough room, there is space to allow for experimentation in bio towers, fractionation, fluidized beds and the like
I have two sumps on my current 180 gallon, neither are directly below the tank , one is hidden behind the tank, the other off to the side.

As you can see, I have a garden hose hanging in the sump. When adding new water I refer to add it to the sump, as opposed to the display tank, this allow for mixing and tempers any temperature fluctuations, or water parameter discrepancies.
The water temp issue was especially important when I lived in Wisconsin, if my water heater couldn't keep up, and water temp dropped from 70s to 40sF.

 

[Backfromthedead]

dont mean to high jack this thread, but if your using a sump, with say two to three filter socks, how do you have it set up for the water entering the sump at the point of those filter socks?

I rig up a 4" pvc fitting over the 1.5" drain line to cinch the filter sock around. Cut the pvc so it sits a couple inches below the desired waterline in the sump to mitigate noise problems.

 

[TankerEasy]

I often have 3 or 4 tanks to a sump, so multiple entry points. I might put a sock in each corner of the sump where water from the tank enters.
To the OPs original question
I prefer sumps because all the mechanical gear is not in the main display view.
Fresh water or salt, the concept is the same.
To provide excess amounts of space for filtration not feasible in the confines tiny HOBs or cans.
and Heaters, socks, pumps, media, all those things that distract from a natural vista are out of view.
It also means I can easily do maintenance on these items by just reaching in the sump.
I normally do not put sumps directly below my tanks, I don't like how cramped it gets trying to get my arms under the stand.
As long as gravity is taken into account they can be off to the side, or behind a wall, in another room, or even on a floor below.

I am also a sucker for trying any new filtration techniques, so in a sump with enough room, there is space to allow for experimentation in bio towers, fractionation, fluidized beds and the like
I have two sumps on my current 180 gallon, neither are directly below the tank , one is hidden behind the tank, the other off to the side.
View attachment 1418106
As you can see, I have a garden hose hanging in the sump. When adding new water I refer to add it to the sump, as opposed to the display tank, this allow for mixing and tempers any temperature fluctuations, or water parameter discrepancies.
The water temp issue was especially important when I lived in Wisconsin, if my water heater couldn't keep up, and water temp dropped from 70s to 40sF.

Keeping everything out of the display is why I want to do a sump on my next big tank, something between a 215 to a 240 which I'm going to build a custom stand for. Problem I'm having is deciding if its better to buy a pre-built sump, or just build my own. If my math is right for a 215 gallon tank I'd have to do somewhere in the ball park of a 55 gallon sump follwing the 1/4 rule?

 

[duanes]

I don't believe there is any standard size being a generic norm per size of tank.
It really depend on stock, and what or how much equipment you want to fit into the sump, and how much water flow wanted.
If your Water parameters are good with a 40 gallon as a sump, and all the gear you want fits, then it works..
I usually use 75 gallon tanks for DIY sumps, or maybe two 55s, I prefer as much volume to experiment with as possible.
Beside filtration, I like to use one as a planted refugium for fish that destroy plants, but I also like to keep rheophyllic fish that prefer high flow, and lots of oxygenation so my GPH pump rate is often more than an average tank.
If your aim is discus, of course this is not a concern, but if you want African Tiger fish, Tomocichla tuba, Maskaheros or Chuco or other cichlids or some other fast flowing riverine fish, this may be something to consider, because having enough room for a large pump, and adequate plumbing comes into play .
Many people keep sump levels shallow, but because of my higher than normal pump age,I prefer them to be half to 3/4 (maybe more) filled
A 55 gal sump below handling 3 or 4 tanks.

planted sump below

Sorry to ramble, but since you said you are new to sumps......andI believe sumps can go beyond what most companies produce, its all about imagination.
I also don't like sumps comparmentaized, this inhibits imagination, and experimentation.

 

[DiscusnAfricans]

All good information, but it seems that the more I learn the more questions I have... I haven't done enough research yet to ask useful questions at the moment, but I like seeing the different examples.

I picked up an FX6 recently because I was able to get a brand new one under$200, and I know you can't have too much filtration, and it gives me something easy to start with and run until I figure out final plans.

Is having media in the sump submerged useful? I thought one benefit of a wet dry was having biological media that wasn't submerged and helped improve oxygenation.

I definitely like the idea of having most of the filtration and other equipment hidden, and increased system volume, etc. I also like the idea of designing something custom, but it's easier when you can just plug something in. In the end I'm sure I'll have a combination of both, but have a lot of options to consider.

 

[pacu mom]

All good information, but it seems that the more I learn the more questions I have... I haven't done enough research yet to ask useful questions at the moment, but I like seeing the different examples.

I picked up an FX6 recently because I was able to get a brand new one under$200, and I know you can't have too much filtration, and it gives me something easy to start with and run until I figure out final plans.

Is having media in the sump submerged useful? I thought one benefit of a wet dry was having biological media that wasn't submerged and helped improve oxygenation.

I definitely like the idea of having most of the filtration and other equipment hidden, and increased system volume, etc. I also like the idea of designing something custom, but it's easier when you can just plug something in. In the end I'm sure I'll have a combination of both, but have a lot of options to consider.

Wet/dry trickle filters and sumps with submerged media are like comparing apples and oranges.

Wet/dry trickle filters typically have filter floss/batting over the bioballs for mechanical filtration. The sumps with submerged media typically have filter socks for mechanical filtration. Wet/dry filters provide excellent biological filtration. The only draw back I have experienced is since the bioballs are not submerged, there could be a die off of the beneficial bacteria during a prolonged power outage. Definitely not a problem if you are there and add water to the main tank to get the water level higher in the wet/dry filter. Submerging the bioballs became a non-issue when we got a 20 KW generator.

In a heavily stocked tank, filter floss/filter socks might require changing more frequently than you might like. There are other types of mechanical filtration such as RTL filters which are primarily seen on large reef set ups. We use two small RTL-25s on our 300 gallon tank, and very infrequently deal with the filter floss in the wet/dry filter.

 

[DiscusnAfricans]

So I found a setup that has an aqueon sump and a FX6. Tank has 2 drains and 2 returns. Currently one drain goes to the sump, one to the FX6. FX6 discharges to the sump, return pump has a T to split the return to each.

So I have a few options:

1.keep it the way it is but this doesn't seem the most efficient.
2. One drain and return to the sump, one drain and return to the FX6.
3. Two drains to the sump, split the return from the sump, and use the FX6 as a regular canister filter.

Other options? What would seem to be the best of the 3?

 

[jjohnwm]

I'm not really a user of sumps in the sense that some refer to them; I find the overly complicated sumps commonly seen today, with large numbers of baffles and multiple compartments, to be pretty useless. I want a sump as large as possible, with as few baffles or other geegaws as I can possible get away with. My rule of thumb? Easy: how big a sump can I squeeze into the available space!

I want as much room as possible for biomedia; you don't need to use the ultra-expensive high-tech stuff that has 12 square miles of surface area per litre if you have room for a lot of the cheaper stuff. On the other hand, I also like foam for this purpose, and IMHO there is nothing that comes close to Poret foam in terms of longevity, durability or effectiveness...but it is pretty high-cost as foam goes. A big sump that has a couple sheets of Poret foam across its length is essentially a giant Matten filter. It's even better because using a sump usually lets you use an easily-cleaned prefilter, and of course the more waste you can remove completely from the system, the less there is to metabolize into nitrate; this is the true Matten filter's only real disadvantage, and modding up a "Matten sump" gives you the best of both worlds. This is also the reason why I personally think canister filters are worse than useless; they encourage you to leave all that crap in the tank water for long periods of time...heck, they brag about how long they can go without clogging!...and the longer the waste stays in the water, the more that dreaded "nitrate factory" thing gets going.

My latest sump project uses K1 fluidized media, just because I wanted to try it out. In past years I have had terrific results using plastic shotgun wads, sold for reloading shotshells. They have a large surface area, weigh practically nothing, and are dirt cheap to boot...my kind of product!

I actually use a few small pieces of progressively-finer-grained Poret as my pre-filter, and whenever possible I like to clean the first coarse layer daily. On the sump I am using now, that is a round 14-inch diameter disc 2 inches thick. It could probably go a couple weeks before clogging enough for water to be forced through the bypass hole, but by cleaning it daily I feel I'm doing the maximum possible to remove solid waste. The finer layers underneath it get a cleaning at least once per week. Cleaning of these pre-filters just involves a thorough high-pressure rinse and squeeze till the water runs clean.

I tried socks for the first time on this sump; the experiment lasted less than 2 months before I lost interest. In a planted tank the socks clog very quickly and overflow unfiltered water into the biomedia. If I go away for a weekend or a week, the sock, unlike my foam prefilter, is completely ineffectual. Much more of a PITA to clean, and absolutely needs that frequent cleaning.

I'm still trying to find a reasonable deal on a large swimming-pool-style diatom filter which I would love to have as the final stage of my filtration, but no luck on that front...yet...

 

[DN328]

So I found a setup that has an aqueon sump and a FX6. Tank has 2 drains and 2 returns. Currently one drain goes to the sump, one to the FX6. FX6 discharges to the sump, return pump has a T to split the return to each.

So I have a few options:

1.keep it the way it is but this doesn't seem the most efficient.
2. One drain and return to the sump, one drain and return to the FX6.
3. Two drains to the sump, split the return from the sump, and use the FX6 as a regular canister filter.

Other options? What would seem to be the best of the 3?

Of the three options, I'd go with option 3. However, I may choose not to use the canister if the aqueon can sufficiently handle your bio load. Canister could be more maintenance with diminishing returns. Nothing against canisters and they are useful - just not needed with a sump.

I would run the wet/dry with Herbie drain.
Everyone has varying preferences and nothing wrong with chambers within reason IMO. Many ways to achieve the same outcomes. The design and setup for how it's done can be fun too.