First plant setups...Tons of Questions

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Haag13

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Feb 16, 2007
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Pennsylvania
I've just started two new planted tanks. One is a 29g and the other is a 150g. I've read the sticky threads and I still have a few questions. Both of the tanks are only lightly planted at this point. The 29g has 65w coralife fixture with a 6700K bulb. The substrate is about 75% red flourite and 25% round river rocks(I realize that they will probably block root growth.) Currently in the tank the is a medium sized amazon sword, a small anubias congensis(sp.), a small dwarf lily, 2 small vallisneria, a few shoots of anacharis, and 2 stems of green cabomba. There are currently 6 female guppies and 3 Indo dats(1" each now will be moved when ready) in the tank. Also the tank is filtered by a HOB type. No CO2 or ferts yet.

The 150 has 192 watts of pc lighting at 6700K and 60 watts of regular flourescent at 5000K. The 150 has 90% red flourite substrate and 10% misc. small gravel. There are pretty much the same plants in this tank as the 29g minus the cabomba but this tank is more sparsely planted. The tank currently has 2-5" leporinus fasciatus, 2-3" kissing gouramis, and a 4" mono pbass(he'll be moved with the dats into a 180g when they are all ready.) This tank is also filtered by 2 HOB filters and there is no CO2 or ferts yet in this tank either.
Now for the questions:
1.) I read a response by wyldfya saying that someone's plants were in the emersed stage and would soon be losing their leaves. I haven't read any other information about this so I'd like to know more about it so I can understand what my plants will go through in the future.
2.) I also have seen a few posts about nitrates being too high for plants. My tap water already contains about 25ppm of nitrates from the start and 3 of my tanks regularly show 60ppm even with 50% weekly water changes. I realize this is largely due to stocking and feeding habits so I don't anticipate levels being as high in these 2 planted setups because they are less stocked and fed sparingly but I think they will still be around 40ppm of nitrate. Is this too high for plants or will they suck up enough to be okay? How will I know if my nitrates are too high for them?
3.) I'm thinking about adding a diy CO2 setup to the 29g and then expanding to the 150g based on results. My initial thoughts were to use the standard coke bottle, yeast, and sugar but if anyone has experience with a low-tech system available in stores or online I'd love to hear about it. Also, my tap water pH is around 7.5 but my tanks normally read around 7. If I do add a simple CO2 system, how careful will I need to be about making sure the ph doesn't swing too wildly due to the CO2? Will a diy CO2 system even do anything given that I have only HOB filters?
4.) Both of these tanks had air bubblers used before I planted them. I have since removed the air from both tanks and all the fish seem fine since I did this(4 days ago). Is there a time lapse between putting the plants in and when they start photosynthisizing? How long does it normally take before they start adding O2 to the water?
5.) Last but not least, I realize that my leporinus are plant eating fish and have also found out that my gouramis like to eat plants as well but I'd really like to keep them in the 150g tank. The only plants neither of them bother at all are the anubias congensis and the anacharis. Are there other plants that they will most likely ignore or should I just move the fish and get some safer inhabitants for my plants?

I'm sorry for such a long post. Any help you can offer will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 
I'm very glad to see that you have done some research.

1.) I read a response by wyldfya saying that someone's plants were in the emersed stage and would soon be losing their leaves. I haven't read any other information about this so I'd like to know more about it so I can understand what my plants will go through in the future.
Amazon swords in their emersed form look like this...
amsword1.jpg


After they have been submerged, the leaves will regrow looking more like this...
plant_profiles_echinodorus_amazonicus.jpg



2.) I also have seen a few posts about nitrates being too high for plants. My tap water already contains about 25ppm of nitrates from the start and 3 of my tanks regularly show 60ppm even with 50% weekly water changes. I realize this is largely due to stocking and feeding habits so I don't anticipate levels being as high in these 2 planted setups because they are less stocked and fed sparingly but I think they will still be around 40ppm of nitrate. Is this too high for plants or will they suck up enough to be okay? How will I know if my nitrates are too high for them?
Nitrates in your tank are not a problem for plants, however, they can cause problems with alga. Watch out for this. I would check your water test kit, as 25ppm nitrate is above your states legal limit. See here, section 93.7

3.) I'm thinking about adding a diy CO2 setup to the 29g and then expanding to the 150g based on results. My initial thoughts were to use the standard coke bottle, yeast, and sugar but if anyone has experience with a low-tech system available in stores or online I'd love to hear about it. Also, my tap water pH is around 7.5 but my tanks normally read around 7. If I do add a simple CO2 system, how careful will I need to be about making sure the ph doesn't swing too wildly due to the CO2? Will a diy CO2 system even do anything given that I have only HOB filters?
Reaction style of co2 is covered in the sticky. HOB filters will make this system practically useless. I would get rid of the HOB filters anyway, because without them your fish will produce co2, and this will help your plants. For the 150, reaction co2 will cost more than getting a pressurized co2 system.

4.) Both of these tanks had air bubblers used before I planted them. I have since removed the air from both tanks and all the fish seem fine since I did this(4 days ago). Is there a time lapse between putting the plants in and when they start photosynthisizing? How long does it normally take before they start adding O2 to the water?
Generally within the same day.


5.) Last but not least, I realize that my leporinus are plant eating fish and have also found out that my gouramis like to eat plants as well but I'd really like to keep them in the 150g tank. The only plants neither of them bother at all are the anubias congensis and the anacharis. Are there other plants that they will most likely ignore or should I just move the fish and get some safer inhabitants for my plants?
If you have a healthy growth rate for you plants, they should keep up with the fish, unless you have an extremely slow grower like downoi.
 
Thanks for all the help Wyldfya. I was starting to worry that no one wanted to help me out but I was hoping for a response from you. I really had no idea about the tranformation some plants go though after being submersed for a while. As for my tap water nitrate levels, 25 is the best estimate I could make. My test kit is the API master fresh water kit and the color card isn't very accurate. The color blocks go from 10ppm to 20ppm and then jump to 40ppm so it's tough to be sure. Two more quick questions for you. Are the sword plants I have the olny ones that will lose their leaves and regrow them differently after is has been submersed and will the leaves that are on it now just all die or will they slowly tranform to the submersed form? Thanks again for all your help. I'll be taking pictures of my tanks weekly and post updates once I see some significant growth.
 
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