Fish are dying and cant figure out why...Please Help

[Juice79]

Ok guys this one has me puzzled and I cant figure out what to do. Tank is a 175 Bow filled with about 70 Mixed Africans ranging from 1" to 6". I have had some of these fish for over 3 years. Filtration is dual Fx5's and a 30g sump with a 900g/hr rated pump. Water changes are 50-60 gallons weekly. Over the past 3 weeks i have lost about 6 fish the same way. They simply stop eating for about 2-3 days and then they will rest/lay on the substrate (belly down) for a day breathing real heavy and eventually die. I have had a bloated fish in the past and know the symptoms and what that looks, these fish are not appearing bloated. I checked all my parameters: Ammonia: 0 Nitrite:0 and Nitrate:20ppm. However, I realized my PH was at 6.6. I now realized this was due to a recent change in the PH of my tap from 8.0to 6.6.

This weekend this is what I have done since the loss of the fish. Buffered PH back to 8.0. Stopped feeding for 2 days. Resumed feedings but at half of normal amounts. Everything seemed fine for the week and then this morning I found another dead fish.

There have been no changes in substrate or decor and any filtration media since this started. I thought the low ph could have been the culprit as I noticed the fish that died were the less dominant ones or the ones that were always hiding. Figured the low ph could have brought on more stress than usual. But they are all dying in the same way and I have no idea what it is.

Any ideas would be much appreciated!

 

[Louie13]

The PH could be a contributor, but stress is stress be it the ph shifts or from aggression. While they may have not fought in the previous 3 years, after more maturity rivalries can start up. You may also want to bump up your water change to 50% weekly, especially with 70 fish in there. Stress in any form brings out the dreaded malawi bloat. As you say a fish will lay on the bottom, gasping, hiding, and most importantly not eating. Eventually without intervention the affected fish will die. Victims of aggression and water quality issues seem to be the biggest culprits. The other big problem is that it is very much contagious. Seemingly healthy fish can catch it weeks later just from mouthing at affected fish's waste. Almost certaintly when one gets it, soon enough others will follow. The best course of action is the below treatment. Do this as soon as you notice a fish is not eating. For the rest of the tank soak your food in metro(metronidazole) or get a parasite killing pellet such as the one made by jungle. This treatment definatly works. I have an extra sensitive O.B peacock that bloats very easily. I have brought it back from the dead with this 3 times now. But each time stocking was looked at to see where any trouble spots may be and adjusted. You might want to do the same. Prior to this I had never been able to recover a fish with bloat and almost always it would be one, and a couple more later on. Here is the treatment and good luck!

(1) DO NOT FEED ANYTHING during this process.
(2) Start this procedure as soon as the fish shows symptoms (spitting familiar food, not eating, long stingy clear or white feces, gasping, hiding during feeding, bloated or emaciated belly,etc.) NOTE: If your fish is bloated but is still eating chances are it does NOT have bloat. A bloated belly is typically the LAST symptom you will see in a fish that has bloat.

Medication required: Clout (Aquarium Products)

Day 1: Move fish to quarantine tank and treat with Clout at full strength (1 tablet / 10 gallons--remove carbon from filter)

Day 2: No water change. Treat again with Clout at half strength.

Day 3: Do nothing

Day 4: Do an 80% water change and treat with Clout at full strength

Day 5: Do nothing

**Day 6--?: Return fish to main tank only after symptoms have subsided and the fish has been healthy: (eating, swimming, breathing normally) for at least a week.
Resist the urge to try feeding the fish until after the treatment is over and do not cut the treatment short regardless of whether the fish looks better or not. If at any time during the treatment your fish seems to be experiencing stress as a result of the medication then do an immediate 75% water change.

**treatment by Shane of cichlid-forum**

 

[Louie13]

I just noticed you mentioned that you don't think they are bloated. What leads you to believe this is not bloat and how are the symptoms different from bloat you have seen in the past? Also bare in mind that the treatment below will act as a comprehensive parasite treatment even if it's another form of parasite.

 

[Crotalus Scutulatus]

I would look for voltage leaks too! Epsom for constipation..... You are making all the right moves as well. Maybe remove your media and try melafix or teatree. I'm sorry for your losses good luck. Maybe some one here can help you quickly!!!

 

[Juice79]

Thanks for he input I will try metronidazole. The fish I have seen bloated in the past have severely extended abdomens. All of these guys do not. I was thinking it was some for of parasite. But i need to figre out how to treat.

 

[Lupin]

I would look for voltage leaks too! Epsom for constipation..... You are making all the right moves as well. Maybe remove your media and try melafix or teatree. I'm sorry for your losses good luck. Maybe some one here can help you quickly!!!

Why on earth would you recommend melafix in this situation? Nothing in this situation calls for dumping herbal meds.

 

[Crotalus Scutulatus]

Why on earth would you recommend melafix in this situation? Nothing in this situation calls for dumping herbal meds.

Wow I was trying to be sincere! Why don't you offer up some help for this guy! Or at least agree with Louie13! Anyway hope dude finds a cure quick!

 

[Louie13]

Metro is fine to help the fish that are doing okay and eating. But if the affected fish are not eating, then the metro won't get into the system and wont' do anything for them. Which is why I would quarantine and treat with clout. You could also treat the entire tank with clout, won't harm your fish. But it will be costly, and will likely stain parts of your tank blue.

Bloated stomachs are usually one of the very last symptoms before the end. When you see the bloated stomach you know the problem has progressed to a far stage. Better to act on it before it gets to that point. You might not even see the bloated stomach. Personally my policy is to take no chances, if a fish doesn't eat for 2 days....it's quarantine time. African cichlids love to eat and are voracious, if they are not eating there is a problem and that is your best signal of a problem. No point in taking chances with expensive, and loved fish.

 

[Jc1119]

Firstly, sorry for your losses. Secondly, it appears you are doing the right things to try to combat whatever you're dealing with. The difference in ph although not deadly, could be a contributing stress factor in the equation here. Are the fish you've lost lower down the rung on the pecking order? Could be as simple as a combination of the lower ph affecting the runts, so to speak, of the pack. Basically, several small stress factors adding up to affect the weaker fish. Once they stop eating, it's really tough to try to turn them around.

I had a similar situation that I dealt with over the last few years. I had a large school of tiger barbs that seemed fine and healthy and one day I found a dead fish by my overflow weir. Didn't think much of losing one, but two weeks later I lost another and so on and so on. Fish would stop eating and appeared to be wasting. Not only would they not eat but they all took food in and spit it out. One by one my school disappeared before my eyes. All my water parameters were fine so I treated for parasites, to no avail. Then I moved to treating for bacterial infections once again to no avail. Thought it could be septicemia But the bacterial meds didn't work either. I was dumbfounded. Unfortunately, I never stopped the fish losses no matter what I tried. I did alot of reading about tuberculosis and came up with no other conclusion. Ultimately I had to euthanize about half the school( those that appeared to be effected) and it stopped. Was it tb? I still dont know, but seeing as it's untreatable and the affected fish were destroyed, I was left to no other conclusion.

Unfortunately, sometimes situations like these are a long process of trial and error seeing what doesn't work and moving on to the next treatment and waiting to see. It's frustrating to say the least.

I do agree with Lupin though. Herbal meds are rarely an effective treatment for such aggressive ailments and are usually only good used in conjunction with something that addresses the root cause. I'd skip the herbals

 

[Lupin]

Wow I was trying to be sincere! Why don't you offer up some help for this guy! Or at least agree with Louie13! Anyway hope dude finds a cure quick!

Actually my lack of contradiction to Louie's advice means I do agree with the regimen he provided for Juice. Maybe I should have added another statement that I do agree with him.