Considering that for most "hardcore" fish enthusiasts, a big tank would probably run somewhere between 100 and 225 gallons, what would be the biggest (excluding oddballs like eels) fish (adult size) that would be ethical to sell? Personally, I think that it is unethical for places like Petsmart to sell even Oscars since I imagine most of the people that shop there don't take the time to really learn or care for their fish properly. I am all in favor of capitalism, but couldn't the fish community pressure places like Petsmart and Petco (I will say that Petco, at least in my area, seems to be stocking fewer big fish in favor of barbs, tetras, etc) into selling "responsible" fish to their "Irresponsible" customers? Certainly, with the impact of the internet, the fish magazines, the various local clubs, etc, there could be some form of lobbying group going to these companies and pressuring them to be more responsible. Maybe big species should be exclusive to actual tropical fish shops? And how about the modified fish that they tattoo and cut their tales off, etc? Horrible. If what happens to tropical fish were happening to dogs and cats Peta and everyone else would be all over this, and they should! So why are fish somehow different? Just some thoughts. I do wonder, what is the biggest fish species that you think is a responsible fish for a serious owner to have in say a 150 gallon tank that has a base of 6' x 2'? And also, what should be the biggest fish species that places like Petsmart should be allowed to sell? Just wondering what thoughts are out there on this... Of course goldfish throw a serious bind in my question don't they? Potentially 3'...
Fishkeeping ethics
- Thread starter Demonfish
- Start date
Why put the onus of fishkeeping and the ethical considerations on the shops? Plenty of people well informed will still buy fish they cant keep properly. Shops will only stock and sell what people want to buy.
Isnt is also unethical to judge others? I think keeping small dogs in apartments and some of the　new age pet dog foods/fashions/trends are pretty unethical but I wouldnt criticise others for doing it.
Besides, I think our notions of HARDCORE fish keepers are so far apart, its too hard to explain.
Isnt is also unethical to judge others? I think keeping small dogs in apartments and some of the　new age pet dog foods/fashions/trends are pretty unethical but I wouldnt criticise others for doing it.
Besides, I think our notions of HARDCORE fish keepers are so far apart, its too hard to explain.
fishdance;1159748; said:
I completely agree
I still look for and buy fish I cannot in my opinion give the PROPER care 
My weather wont permit it for the fmish I want and the City really doesn't liek new rivers !!! 
Seriously though.In the wild the vast majority of the fish fry that we keep would have died in the first couple of week...falling prey to preditors of all types. A larger precentage of fish have a chance at a longer healither life in our hobby than they would in the wild.
Even now you have people complaining about the few restrictions placed on fishkeepers species wise... care to count the number of...bring asian aros into the US....petitions and threads on MFK?
Of course there is always the last and most powerful argument of all...
...You can't legislate morality...keep fish in the best way that you know how and trust others to do the same thing. Once you replace education and common sence with iron clad rules then the entire system would break down and the black market trade would gain a HUGE advantage to the deteriment of the entire hobby.
Even now you have people complaining about the few restrictions placed on fishkeepers species wise... care to count the number of...bring asian aros into the US....petitions and threads on MFK?
Of course there is always the last and most powerful argument of all...
...You can't legislate morality...keep fish in the best way that you know how and trust others to do the same thing. Once you replace education and common sence with iron clad rules then the entire system would break down and the black market trade would gain a HUGE advantage to the deteriment of the entire hobby.
Demonfish;1159727; said:
Goldfish do not get to be 3 feet long.
Well, we were all noobs, and we all bought fish that we could not provide a proper home for. But once you know a lot about fish, it is your responsibility to treat fish (and other animals) as fairly and humanely as possible. That's what I think.
I feel the solution is to place all fish beyond a certain size or needing other highly specialized care on special order only.
In the past I would have said ban fish like arapaima because nobody can keep them right?...MFK proved me wrong on that one.I feel it's unfair to ban keeping an animal if someone is able to keep them, even if it's the minority.
That way the people would could care for them could still obtain them.
The people who are not serious enough to keep them probably couldn't be bothered to place a special order and come back later and pick up the fish.
Nor would these fish be part of the shop's regular stock since they would only order them when a customer who hopefully had a proper tank would place a special order for them.
With this system...
They haven't been banned.
Less likely to fall into the hands of inexperienced aquarists.
People who want them need only endure a minor wait while the fish in question are being special ordered.
The only specimens entering the trade will the ones special ordered by people directly buying them.
In the past I would have said ban fish like arapaima because nobody can keep them right?...MFK proved me wrong on that one.I feel it's unfair to ban keeping an animal if someone is able to keep them, even if it's the minority.
That way the people would could care for them could still obtain them.
The people who are not serious enough to keep them probably couldn't be bothered to place a special order and come back later and pick up the fish.
Nor would these fish be part of the shop's regular stock since they would only order them when a customer who hopefully had a proper tank would place a special order for them.
With this system...
They haven't been banned.
Less likely to fall into the hands of inexperienced aquarists.
People who want them need only endure a minor wait while the fish in question are being special ordered.
The only specimens entering the trade will the ones special ordered by people directly buying them.
I think there should be less tankbusting fish sold in the hobby, there are far too many of them sold.
Generally speaking, to find the right size tank for fish whicg grow to 12inches long or more, the tank should be 4times the length of the fish to find the right length of the tank, and twice the length of the fish to find the right width, and at least 1.5times the "height" if the fish to find the right height of the tank.
For very active fish this rule of thumb will need to be stretched, and for very inactive fish it can be shorted etc.
So basically, a fish which grows to 3ft long needs to have a tank/pond that is 12ft long by 6ft wide and probably at least 2ft deep.
How many people do you know with a monster size aquarium/indoor pond of these measurements? How many fish do you see sold that grow to 3ft long or more?
There are too many tankbusting fish in the hobby than what there are actually fishkeepers with suitably sized tanks to keep them in.
The majority of Red tailed catfish (grow to 4-5ft long on average) will end up dying after suffering in tanks far too small for them for ends on end.
I would be very happy if petshops reduced the amount of tankbusting fish they sold, because is it is rare that these tankbusting fish ever end up in aquariums that are suitable for them with fishkeepers dedicated enough to look after the fish for the years, even decades, the fish will live for.
Generally speaking, to find the right size tank for fish whicg grow to 12inches long or more, the tank should be 4times the length of the fish to find the right length of the tank, and twice the length of the fish to find the right width, and at least 1.5times the "height" if the fish to find the right height of the tank.
For very active fish this rule of thumb will need to be stretched, and for very inactive fish it can be shorted etc.
So basically, a fish which grows to 3ft long needs to have a tank/pond that is 12ft long by 6ft wide and probably at least 2ft deep.
How many people do you know with a monster size aquarium/indoor pond of these measurements? How many fish do you see sold that grow to 3ft long or more?
There are too many tankbusting fish in the hobby than what there are actually fishkeepers with suitably sized tanks to keep them in.
The majority of Red tailed catfish (grow to 4-5ft long on average) will end up dying after suffering in tanks far too small for them for ends on end.
I would be very happy if petshops reduced the amount of tankbusting fish they sold, because is it is rare that these tankbusting fish ever end up in aquariums that are suitable for them with fishkeepers dedicated enough to look after the fish for the years, even decades, the fish will live for.