Florida Gars suddenly have wierd "flaking" on their scales and possibly blood.

[hera]

Hello all...I joined this site to ask if anyone knows what is happening. We have 2 Florida Gars that are roughly 18-20 years old. In september we introduced a pair of Jack Dempseys into the tank. All seems fine although feeding time is chaotic! Those Dempseys are very aggressive, often taking the food right out of the Gar's mouths. In late November/early December we got an upside down catfish. One day early on I noticed it was "cleaning" the underside of our smaller Gar. The Gar did not seem to care. Very recently we got another upside down catfish. In the last week or so we have noticed that the Gars' scales seem to be very flaky and appear to be "surrounded" in blood. This is only in a few areas. Also in those areas they are very pale...it almost looks like the catfish ar overcleaning the Gars? Even their spots seem to be fading. Anyone know if this is indeed from the catfish or does it look more like a disease?

Thanks for your time!

 

[Jeox]

It's from the catfish.
Or if you have a plecostamus, it's him. My big guy just did this to one of my gar.
it'll heal IF you get the cats seperated ASAP

 

[KaraJo]

yep...its def. from the catfish. Gar and catfish don't mix. I would get those catfish out of there ASAP or your gar may die from this. I think it should heal as long as it is stopped. If your jack demsey's are overly aggressive, I wouldnt say this is a good idea either. If they are taking food from the gar, it can stress them out and they may not be getting the food they need.

 

[hera]

thanks so much for the quick response! we will get those catfish out of there ASAP. Since I'm here...can anyone tell me how to figure out the sex of these Gars?

Thanks!!

 

[E_americanus]

definitely the upside down catfish. synos shouldn't be trusted with gars as they can do the same slime-sucking as plecos or prochilodus (latter not being catfishes). other than that, catfishes can often be kept with gars safely given size is accounted for.

keep up with water changes, i would increase to 2-3x the normal frequency and volume changed. also may want to add some salt to the tank, 1tbsp per 20g is a safe start. and of course, remove the upside down catfish.

external sexing of gars is (unfortunately) not possible at this time, but congrats on keeping these gars for so long! that's a major accomplishment, have you had them the whole time? --
--solomon

 

[hera]

bummer that its the catfish. They are beautiful! But, the gars are like family, hehe. So the catfish must go. my boyfriend acquired them about 18-20 years ago...he said they were already pretty big too! So maybe they are more like 20-25? anyways he kept them for a while, then he gave them to a friend to take care of...that was for about 8 years or so. Then about 3 years he brought them back to us. Since then, the big guy has grown quite a bit (in girth). They are 14" long, the big guy is quite a bit fatter than the smaller one. ("He's" a great hunter.)

I call them "He" and "She" just because of their size difference and the fact that "his" spots are much brighter and more plentiful and "her" markings are much more dull..also "she" has only 3 spots on "her" tail whereas "he" has several. If they follow the laws of nature, then the male would be more colorful to attract the female, no? Anyways it doesnt matter if we ever find out, I was just curious. Would have been cool if they had bred though.

thanks again for all the info! This site is awesome.....

H.

 

[hera]

duh...curse my non-proofreading!

"then he gave them to a friend to take care of...that was for about 8 years or so. Then about 3 years he brought them back to us." It should have said "about 3 years AGO he brought them back to us." hehe. sorry

 

[KaraJo]

pattern doesn't seem to be a factor in gar when it comes to sexing them. There are a lot of variations of the FLorida/Spotted gar, and even these two species cannot be told apart easily. I have a larger gar that has a dull pattern to him, but I also have a smaller one with more spotting and such. Size and patterns have no effect on telling the sex of gar.

 

[Polypterus]

Size and patterns have no effect on telling the sex of gar.

Well yes and no on size.... Size / weight does in fact have a direct correlation to sexing Lepisosteids. Application of this to Captive fish is very much hypothetical as the variables are changed and we are still learning much about this and experimenting with it.

In wild fish there is a very clear and documented pattern of females growing larger and faster than males for same year class fish. Yearly growth until maturity is additionally different with Males growing slower than females. There is in general a size disparity between the sexes from the same year class.

Hypothetically this same growth pattern should be seen in captive fish.

 

[demjor19]

Well yes and no on size.... Size / weight does in fact have a direct correlation to sexing Lepisosteids. Application of this to Captive fish is very much hypothetical as the variables are changed and we are still learning much about this and experimenting with it.

In wild fish there is a very clear and documented pattern of females growing larger and faster than males for same year class fish. Yearly growth until maturity is additionally different with Males growing slower than females. There is in general a size disparity between the sexes from the same year class.

Hypothetically this same growth pattern should be seen in captive fish.

i think her point is that you are not going to look at a group of gar and be able to pick out the males and females (especially w/ out knowing any backround info on the fish). even on wild gar, size is not a surefire way to sex them.