Folha silver dollar
- Thread starter Jdadams
- Start date
Thanks for posting those FB pictures.
There is understandable reason why there is not much out there for these large species of silver dollars. Mainly, little is known about them, even by the experts, and they are not generally available for purchase. On top of that, these are large, nervous fish, and I suspect they don't travel well.
There are only two species in the genus Utiaritichthys, and both are relatively rarely captured and sold, and only one, somewhat recently, has become available for sale by specialized importers (Tangled up in Cichlids, and perhaps a couple of other places): U. sennaebragai Miranda & Ribeiro, 1937 (type of the genus). The prices are high and availability occasional and low.
U. longidorsalis was later described by Jegu et al, 1992, and it seems this is the fish you are asking about. I have never seen it available anywhere and I suspect most people have not seen this fish in person.
On top of that, current understanding of the status of the genus is that it is NOT monophyletic: Specifically, the two species currently in the genus are in different places in the most up to date phylogeny of Serrasalmidae (Matteusi et al. 2020), and they may belong in different places among the various spp. of Myloplus, Myleus & Tometes. Previous to that work, the genus had never been included in earlier molecular studies of Serrasalmidae. Ongoing work may soon resolve these issues, with the genus either being restricted to one species, or altogether relegated to synonymy within other Myleini.
Have you seen these fish in person or available for sale? (other than those photos in FB)? The photos shown look similar to some I have seen of U. sennaebragai, but I don't pretend to know either species.
If you have better photos or additional info, by all means post it here so we can all learn about them.
There is understandable reason why there is not much out there for these large species of silver dollars. Mainly, little is known about them, even by the experts, and they are not generally available for purchase. On top of that, these are large, nervous fish, and I suspect they don't travel well.
There are only two species in the genus Utiaritichthys, and both are relatively rarely captured and sold, and only one, somewhat recently, has become available for sale by specialized importers (Tangled up in Cichlids, and perhaps a couple of other places): U. sennaebragai Miranda & Ribeiro, 1937 (type of the genus). The prices are high and availability occasional and low.
U. longidorsalis was later described by Jegu et al, 1992, and it seems this is the fish you are asking about. I have never seen it available anywhere and I suspect most people have not seen this fish in person.
On top of that, current understanding of the status of the genus is that it is NOT monophyletic: Specifically, the two species currently in the genus are in different places in the most up to date phylogeny of Serrasalmidae (Matteusi et al. 2020), and they may belong in different places among the various spp. of Myloplus, Myleus & Tometes. Previous to that work, the genus had never been included in earlier molecular studies of Serrasalmidae. Ongoing work may soon resolve these issues, with the genus either being restricted to one species, or altogether relegated to synonymy within other Myleini.
Have you seen these fish in person or available for sale? (other than those photos in FB)? The photos shown look similar to some I have seen of U. sennaebragai, but I don't pretend to know either species.
If you have better photos or additional info, by all means post it here so we can all learn about them.
I have seen them for sale from Wes in the past and now predatory fins has them. There is a video on YouTube of them as babies and then more mature.
Very interesting. Thanks for posting that.
I missed mentioning earlier a third species, U. esguiceroi Pereira & Castro 2014.
Do keep in mind the following:
The specimens shown in the first part of the video are very young. Between the 1-1:50 min mark, more mature specimens can be seen, not sure if full-grown. Note how large they look compared to full grown wide-bar schomburgki (the wide bars look tiny in comparison!), and to Pacu. They are large.... not as large as pacu but quite large. U. longidorsalis may stay smaller than the others, but again, they are quite hefty.
U. esguiceroi - up to 12"
U. longidorsalis - up to 8"
U. sennaebragai - up to 12"
Beautiful too. I wish I could have a huge a tank tank but I just don't. Good luck if you get tem!
I missed mentioning earlier a third species, U. esguiceroi Pereira & Castro 2014.
Do keep in mind the following:
The specimens shown in the first part of the video are very young. Between the 1-1:50 min mark, more mature specimens can be seen, not sure if full-grown. Note how large they look compared to full grown wide-bar schomburgki (the wide bars look tiny in comparison!), and to Pacu. They are large.... not as large as pacu but quite large. U. longidorsalis may stay smaller than the others, but again, they are quite hefty.
U. esguiceroi - up to 12"
U. longidorsalis - up to 8"
U. sennaebragai - up to 12"
Beautiful too. I wish I could have a huge a tank tank but I just don't. Good luck if you get tem!
the one being sold as folha, is not "Utiaritichthys" at all. Utiaritichthys are a much larger fish with a different body shape. The "greenish / yellow " spp. should be a myleus spp. but its not described to my understanding. I had some for sale, but I'm out. You can find some of my IG
fugupuff
fugupuff
Hey Wes. I’m the one blowing up your IG asking about your silver dollars. I was hoping someone that bought some from you back then would pop. I’m intrigued but the colors on this onethe one being sold as folha, is not "Utiaritichthys" at all. Utiaritichthys are a much larger fish with a different body shape. The "greenish / yellow " spp. should be a myleus spp. but its not described to my understanding. I had some for sale, but I'm out. You can find some of my IG
