Gar & Bowfin Subforum Merge - Discussion

[Wiggles92]

I am also misunderstanding (COLD WATER & NATIVE NA). From my personal experience with the "unspeakable" I have found precious little difference in the progress of development anywhere between unheated outdoor pond to indoor heated aquarium.

IMO they are NOT coldwater fish. They THRIVE in Florida WARM waters! Well, they are STRICTLY North American, so I guess that is what best "lumps" them into that "category".

Bowfin also fall under the "Temperate" category which is another reason why they got lumped into that forum; in reality, said forum is kind of a catch-all type forum for a bunch of different fishes that fall under one of the three categories in the sub-forum title.

In an ideal world, bowfin would be added in with the "Gar Sub-forum" to form the "Gars & Bowfin Sub-forum" a.k.a "Holostei Sub-forum" since they are closely related after all. There are other changes that could be made such as move both the "Arowana Sub-forum" and the "Knifefish Sub-forum" from the "Ancient Fish Forum" because both of these groups of fishes fall under Teleostei which is sometimes referred to as the "modern fishes." Freshwater Stingrays and Sturgeon & Paddlefish could actually get added to the "Ancient Fish Forum" because of their ancient nature (from an evolutionary standpoint). I would suggest adding lampreys to the "Ancient Fish Forum", too, but literally next to no one on here has ever kept them for long.

But, hey, let's get the bowfin added to this sub-forum before we start going crazy with changes.

I rarely EVER see the "trolling" and "antagonistic" types of posts in the Gar forum that plagues the Lounge, Fishing, Cold Water & even General Aquaria forum to a lesser extent.

Only the most brazen trolls venture here, but they get eaten for breakfast.

 

[Madding]

Leeman, I like your passion! But surely fighting a futile battle against the powers-that-be and predicting your own ban is not a good way to tackle this situation. I agree that the comment about Snakeheads being in ancient fish doesn't make much sense. But otherwise the mod in the bowfin thread has raised some good points and was being pretty open to ideas.

Above all, there needs to be suitable traffic for some of these proposed sub-forums, such as bowfin. The poll will help, but not much. You need to find out how many people on the site actually keep bowfin, want to keep bowfin, have kept bowfin, etc. Polls in the freshwater general section, the ancient fish section, and the natives section (even the same poll in all three places) would help to get an idea of the numbers. If you can prove that there are a greater number of active members that would participate in bowfin discussion than say, the stagnant lungfish forum, then I think we could make a case.

I am always willing to help, but I don't have a ton of time lately and most of my time here is used to make me a better gar keeper. But I can definitely pitch in, you just need to calm down about the moderation staff. All too many of us would agree with your opinions, but mod-bashing isn't going to get the bowfin anything.

 

[Wiggles92]

I've got the "Bowfin Legality in the U.S." thread completed now if anyone is interested.

 

[Polypterus]

What is this about with Bowfin? send me a PM with links....

 

[E_americanus]

actually if you can just post (and if not PM) the link about the bowfin discussion thread i'd like to check it out too. i had mentioned at least a couple times over the past years that bowfin should be combined in with the gar forum or at least in ancient fishes. i'll start another thread to discuss that (as i don't want to derail this one further), but most people only have weakly supported arguments for NOT putting the bowfin with gars (or at least ancient fishes).

Holosteans RULE!!!--
--solomon

 

[xander]

having tried (fruitlessly) to rearrange the characin forum, i can say it can get extremely tricky trying to group fishes in a way that fits their natural history without making it too complicated for new or unfamiliar members. we could push for bowfins to be added in here, but would definitely recommend take it slow; the site is quite understaffed as it is and there are a lot of things already on the back burner (i've been pushing for a gar-wiki for a while now yet we don't have the time for that even).

would like a link to that bowfin thread too though

 

[Madding]

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...ve-a-sub-forum-in-ancient-fish-for-Amia-Calva

It isn't the most productive thread, things sort of died off after people started bickering...

Like I said on the last page of this thread, I think that there would be a better case for bowfin sub-forum if there were some good numbers gathered for active forum members who keep, have kept, want to keep, etc, bowfin.

As for having a sub-forum in the gar section, I think if the top sticky in said sub-forum was titled -- "WONDERING WHY THE BOWFIN IS GROUPED WITH THE GAR? READ HERE" -- and it provided a good explanation, then that should be enough to stop noobs from getting confused.

 

[Wiggles92]

Here's a link to that thread.

I found parts of the thread to be kind of amusing towards the end; people really need to get informed on evolution and what's really an "ancient fish."

EDIT: Oops, Madding beat me to the link by a long shot.

 

[Polypterus]

There is no reason to not lump Bowfin with Gars... We did this on Aquatic Predators many moons ago back in the day.. Interestingly though when we did that the Native fish people threw a total fit as we where taking away the star fish... They do not need their own sub forum.. they and Gar go hand and hand in many ways. I would very much welcome Bowfin being added here to the Gar forum.

Not sure why this would be a problem to the powers that be.. I mean really it is nothing but adding a few more pixels to you. We would continue to add the content and make it work.. I can't see why it would not work or somehow break the site and destroy everything..

Bowfin are a very cool fish and they do deserve more attention as they do make for great pet fish.. More exposure on them is only a good thing IMO..

 

[E_americanus]

There is no reason to not lump Bowfin with Gars... We did this on Aquatic Predators many moons ago back in the day.. Interestingly though when we did that the Native fish people threw a total fit as we where taking away the star fish... They do not need their own sub forum.. they and Gar go hand and hand in many ways. I would very much welcome Bowfin being added here to the Gar forum.

Not sure why this would be a problem to the powers that be.. I mean really it is nothing but adding a few more pixels to you. We would continue to add the content and make it work.. I can't see why it would not work or somehow break the site and destroy everything..

Bowfin are a very cool fish and they do deserve more attention as they do make for great pet fish.. More exposure on them is only a good thing IMO..

absolutely correct. there is virtually NO WORK to making that change, and that is the appropriate change to make. no new forum, sub-forum, or any other BS. just change the freaking Gar sub-forum name to simply "Gars and Bowfin" and it's DONE.

a new pinned topic or two about bowfins could be added (that way no one will read them and we'll get the same repeat questions like with gars), but it would generally be a seamless transition.

unlike other fishes where people could argue more, this is ONE species. when possible fishes should be grouped in forum by those they are similar to, not just lumped together because of region. note...when possible; the natives forum (or whatever it's called here) is fine for groups of fishes, but one primitive species like the bowfin more correctly belongs here.

someone make this happen please--
--solomon