Gar ID: Hybrid?

[xander]

i suppose mine would look like this if its snout weren't broken. notice the thick cadual penducle

vs what seems to be a regular longnose, notice skinnier body n noticably thinner cadual penducle. (also, is it just me or is this gar's snout longer than the one above?) also, the cadual fin placement in both fishes seem to be different, with this fish having a much closer resemblence to the other longnoses at the back of the tank. any thoughts?

 

[xander]

my fish

 

[Polypterus]

i suppose mine would look like this if its snout weren't broken. notice the thick cadual penducle

vs what seems to be a regular longnose, notice skinnier body n noticably thinner cadual penducle. (also, is it just me or is this gar's snout longer than the one above?) also, the cadual fin placement in both fishes seem to be different, with this fish having a much closer resemblence to the other longnoses at the back of the tank. any thoughts?

And why would the one pictured not just be a Spotted ?

 

[xander]

doesn't look anything like the gars u and solomon posted, snout too long and the spotteds you guys are catching seem to be far more patterned. colour also made me decide against spotted

 

[Polypterus]

doesn't look anything like the gars u and solomon posted, snout too long and the spotteds you guys are catching seem to be far more patterned. colour also made me decide against spotted

Alex you know better than to use color as a judgement. A secondary condition, yes in some cases. Thing is though we have got several Spotteds that had longer than expected snouts. Particular fish does not seem terribly off from them. Key determination with that fish I think would have to come from a closer detailed look at it for specific morphometric and meritistic traits.

It is an interesting looking one but I'm not so sure that the hybrid label should be quickly tied to it.

 

[xander]

Alex you know better than to use color as a judgement. A secondary condition, yes in some cases. Thing is though we have got several Spotteds that had longer than expected snouts. Particular fish does not seem terribly off from them. Key determination with that fish I think would have to come from a closer detailed look at it for specific morphometric and meritistic traits.

It is an interesting looking one but I'm not so sure that the hybrid label should be quickly tied to it.

yup, colour was the cherry on top of the cake, if you know what i mean..the spotted pic you posted does show a longer than expected snout. however am i right in saying that the larger specimens do tend to have pretty wide snouts? the pictured fish is 60cm & the snout looks relatively thin (more speculation on my part than anything).

im nt insiuating that the fish is a hybrid, it just looked different & i was curious

ps, good to see you back

 

[tankboi]

the first one appears to be a spotted or florida gar. The second is definitely a longnose gar. They appear to be two different species. The longnose generally are less colorful the the florida or the spotted gars. The cadual is not placed any different but the dorsal fin and the anal fin are which is also shaped different in the two fish. I'm no expert but that is my .02!

 

[Lepisosteus platyrhincus]

i want


alex, not sure if that is a hybrid. pej already chimed in, just figured id pop in with my .02. Interesting fish but im not sure. either way i want

 

[Madding]

Nice gar, reGARdless of whether or not its a hybrid!

 

[E_americanus]

i agree with madding in that it is a nice specimen no matter what the true ID.

that being said, keep in mind that longnoses are the widest-ranging gars and there is a high degree of variability among populations.

in my opinion, the first pic in your original post is an unusual longnose gar, but still a longnose nevertheless. longnoses coming out of the south, particularly photos we have seen from fish from FL seem to have that thicker caudal peduncle. pattern variation is mainly environmental, and in captivity a combination of the genetics of the source population as well as food, tank conditions, etc.

to reiterate, longnoses are highly variable, and the variation you are noting...which is notable, is an individual (or if they were tied to wild populations, a population)-level variation. spotted gars due tend to have longer snouts, but as you noted, as they get larger, and perhaps to the age and/or size of the fish you are showing in your photos (longnoses), they would have much more distinctly wider/shorter snouts comparatively (when small their snouts are much skinnier, but then, so are FL gars).

your fish (and Richard and i have discussed this earlier) seems to us to most logically be a longnose gar that had a damaged and subsequently healed snout...that there is something unique about the snout is obvious in the photos (also that there was some damage or malformation). great specimen reGARdless, but given what we are learning about intra-species variation, i would guess it is a longnose gar with relatively high confidence--
--solomon