Gar : Type II Crocodile

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arvicanthis

Feeder Fish
MFK Member
Oct 12, 2007
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london, England
Hi Guys,
Do any of you know if there have ever been any imports of this hybrid into the UK? If not, I would be keen to look into importing some. Any further info from owners / importers in the UK Or other territories would be greatly appreciated. I have seen one in the pics on this forum so far. So any further pics / info would be great. For example are they being bred in the Far East, Like the RTG / TSN Hybrids?

ATB,

Thanks for everyone's time in advance.

G
 
arvicanthis;4383432; said:
Hi Guys,
Do any of you know if there have ever been any imports of this hybrid into the UK? If not, I would be keen to look into importing some. Any further info from owners / importers in the UK Or other territories would be greatly appreciated. I have seen one in the pics on this forum so far. So any further pics / info would be great. For example are they being bred in the Far East, Like the RTG / TSN Hybrids?

ATB,

Thanks for everyone's time in advance.

G

I don't believe the Croc hybrids are part of the hobby, so to speak. As far as I know, they are wild specimens that Solomon and Richard have caught in native waters. I've not heard of them anywhere else, but I could be wrong on this.
 
Hi, thanks for the speedy reply!
That is interesting, because i have seen gars described as "Crocodile" on suppliers lists, but until seeing these hybrid pictures, just assumed that they were calling alligator gars, crocs. I see now that they are an actual hybrid. Thanks for your input, so it could be that these suppliers named regular spatula as crocs, or that they might be being bred somewhere.
it would be great to get to the bottom of it.

thanks again,

G
 
the ones that are in the hobby are captive breed. shedd aquarium did some of them(croc gars dunno if it was the II)

i do believe there are a selective few bein breed in asia but i cant find evidence of that. just a source told me about that, and i do trust his knowledge.
 
^i wouldn't be too confident about there being rare gars all over asia that we haven't heard of. i have contacts scourging taiwan, thailand & other asian countries for rare gars, & no news/word reGARding those rarest of gar.
 
like i said i dunno, just what i heard


im just after medius :drool:
 
Huh, news to me.
 
thanks for the further input guys.
Xander that sounds disappointing that the asian farms aren't blending gars gentics (like they are with RTC and Cichlids) They were my burning hope. hehehe. Ah well, i will just have to keep looking out. Have you guys been seeing any golden gars recently? Is this being bred in asia for example. I imagine it wouldn prove very popular there.

ATB

G
 
will put together a thread/piece on crocodile gars that i have been meaning to do on LEP.net for some time, but here are some main points:

- the "crocodile" gar term is a common name designation made up by the pet-trade people who first crossed the shortnose and gator gar in basically a rough experiment. richard and i later fine-tuned the name to refer to other hybrids crossed with gators, as we started to see them (either in the trade or in the literature). since the shortnose x gator was the first cross, we called it "crocodile gar type I".

- the second type (type II) is represented by only one specimen we know of, so all the pics you see on the interwebs and the google are of the same fish. that fish has drastically changed pattern over its ~6 years of life (and counting). this cross has been analyzed via DNA to indicate a spotted x gator cross.

- the croc I crosses were all artificially created, it is unlikely they exist in the wild as shortnoses partition themselves to an extent during spawning season, and are much smaller (almost prey-size) to large gators. croc II is also most likely an artificial creation (captive cross) for similar reasons to the croc I. however...

- the croc III is a cross for which there is evidence of both captive and wild individuals. the original croc III was described officially in the literature when a longnose female spawned with a male alligator gar at the Shedd Aquarium. unfortunately the people out there didn't realize that young gar are highly cannibalistic, so only 4 individuals remain (it may be 8, as 4 may be on display, 4 not, but definitely no more than 8 according to the lit). there is evidence in Texas that gators and longnoses (both the largest members of their genera) do cross, and the photos support this.

- we don't know if any of the hybrids are fertile (most likely not), and further wild examples of these crosses (crocodile gars anyway) have not been observed.

- the longnose x shortnose cross (aka "medius" gar) appears to exist in both wild and captivity...our sample is from a captive-spawned specimen, and we believe to have captured and photographed a wild specimen several years ago (unfortunately did not take tissue to make a conclusive statement based on DNA).

- it is believed that there is a cross of Florida and spotted gars (we know they overlap in habitat in some places), but this would have to be proven via DNA as basic physical appearance and measures (morphometrics and meristics) would be impossible to differentiate between the species.

those are the general points we know, hope that helps!--
--solomon
 
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