Geophagus Sveni

[Lilyann]

I believe one of my g. sveni ( they are wilds) is holding a group of wigglers in its mouth because I noticed some ( what looked like) breeding behaviors between 2 of them last week. The biggest tell-- it will not eat.
The fish does not appear sick at all: it will rush at food, but then not open its mouth, it chases a short distance and postures aggressively other fish, its color is good, eyes bright, no pitting around head, or indications in feces of illness.
This is what makes me believe there are fry in mouth- but, I guess I could be wrong as these are the first geophagus I have had.

Stats:
pH- 7.2
GH 5/ KH 3
TDS 115
Temperature 79 degrees
Tank size: 180 gallon
Occupants:
Geoghagus Sveni 5 and Neambi 3 ( juveniles about 6 months old).
Various other small cichlids : biotodoma cupido's and Bolivian Rams
Corydoras and tetras.


*Age of the sveni is at least 12 months.

If the fish is holding fry, how many days does he/she do so? - I have noticed that this fish hasn't eaten, with mouth tightly closed, for 4 days.
Is there any chance that the fry would survive in a tank that has other fish in it when free-swimming in tank or should i try to strip this fish of fry and put them in another tank? I have a cycled 30 gallon that I could put the fry into.
Stanzzzz7 duanes or anyone else?

 

[Stanzzzz7]

I believe one of my g. sveni ( they are wilds) is holding a group of wigglers in its mouth because I noticed some ( what looked like) breeding behaviors between 2 of them last week. The biggest tell-- it will not eat.
The fish does not appear sick at all: it will rush at food, but then not open its mouth, it chases a short distance and postures aggressively other fish, its color is good, eyes bright, no pitting around head, or indications in feces of illness.
This is what makes me believe there are fry in mouth- but, I guess I could be wrong as these are the first geophagus I have had.

Stats:
pH- 7.2
GH 5/ KH 3
TDS 115
Temperature 79 degrees
Tank size: 180 gallon
Occupants:
Geoghagus Sveni 5 and Neambi 3 ( juveniles about 6 months old).
Various other small cichlids : biotodoma cupido's and Bolivian Rams
Corydoras and tetras.


*Age of the sveni is at least 12 months.

If the fish is holding fry, how many days does he/she do so? - I have noticed that this fish hasn't eaten, with mouth tightly closed, for 4 days.
Is there any chance that the fry would survive in a tank that has other fish in it when free-swimming in tank or should i try to strip this fish of fry and put them in another tank? I have a cycled 30 gallon that I could put the fry into.
Stanzzzz7 duanes or anyone else?

Sounds like your geo is holding fry. Congratulations.
Holding period can vary but about 9 ish days would be about right.
It is generally best to strip the female of the fry.
If you catch the female and put her in a fry rearing tank you will stand a better chance of raising more fry.
Take the female and hold her in your hand face down above the rearing tank. Gently pour tank water backwards through her gills and this should make her release the fry.
You could leave her in the community and see how they get on. The chance of many making it will be slim.
You may also find that the holding female will be harassed by your males wanting to breed again. She won't be able to defend herself properly with a mouth full of fry.
Personally I would strip her of fry.
Don't worry about her not eating during the holding period, it's perfectly normal.

 

[Lilyann]

Oh wow! Okay. I have a 30 gallon ready that I have a pair of discus in which I am trying to get to spawn, I could move them, and put the sveni female in there with the fry. Or should I just put the fry in there- that sounds more like what you are saying by stripping her of fry.
The temperatu the fry in there.
For food for fry. I have some NLS Grow Fry Starter- would this be adequate? I also can go get them some frozen baby brine shrimp if this would be a better choice.
I have a power filter on this tank, I imagine I would probably need to reduce flow.
Change the water every day, every 2 days? Or?
Thank you Stanzz, so glad you saw my post.

PS-- And you intuitively picked up on my concern, she is looking much thinner today.

 

[Stanzzzz7]

Oh wow! Okay. I have a 30 gallon ready that I have a pair of discus in which I am trying to get to spawn, I could move them, and put the sveni female in there with the fry. Or should I just put the fry in there- that sounds more like what you are saying by stripping her of fry.
The temperatu the fry in there.
For food for fry. I have some NLS Grow Fry Starter- would this be adequate? I also can go get them some frozen baby brine shrimp if this would be a better choice.
I have a power filter on this tank, I imagine I would probably need to reduce flow.
Change the water every day, every 2 days? Or?
Thank you Stanzz, so glad you saw my post.

PS-- And you intuitively picked up on my concern, she is looking much thinner today.

Yes it's best to strip the fry from the female for two reasons .
Firstly, inexperienced females are likely to get hungry and stressed and eat their first few broods.
The other reason is that you can get your female back in the community, eating again and on the road to recuperation ready for the next spawn.

Your first fry foods sound fine, I would also do the baby brine shrimp too.

If when the fry are released they still have a visible egg sack, you may need to keep them moving a little with an air stone or return pipe. This will mimic the juggling action they receive from the mother in her mouth. Placing the fry in a net under an air stone can be a good method.
This is only necessary if the egg sack is still visible. Free swimming fry will be fine.

I would change some of the water daily if you can but every other day would surfice should you be too busey.

Good luck Amy.
Don't hesitate if you have any more questions.

 

[Stanzzzz7]

Forgot to mention. I would cut up a pair of your tights/stockings and wrap some around your filter intake.
This will help prevent the little ones getting sucked up into the filter.

 

[duanes]

I agree with "all" Stanzzzz7's suggestions.
Although being inexperienced, she may spit the fry while being chased, so be ready to catch them.
If it gets too crazy and they are lost, you may want to move the mated pair to another tank when spawning is eminent , so/and when they do spawn again, just remove the male and give her the entire tank, to raise fry undisturbed. In community tanks, fry often starve because they don't get enough safe time out of the mouth to forage
This has been my preferred way of getting Geophagine fry.

 

[Lilyann]

Excellent Stanzzzz7 and duanes -- I will follow all this advice to tee.
The biggest problem will be catching her in my 180 gallon.

 

[duanes]

Catching them, and not spitting the fry all over was my problem too, that why as soon as I saw spawning ritual activity start, that's when I moved pairs.
And as soon as eggs were played, that's when the male went back to the community.

 

[Lilyann]

Catching them, and not spitting the fry all over was my problem too, that why as soon as I saw spawning ritual activity start, that's when I moved pairs.
And as soon as eggs were played, that's when the male went back to the community.

I was not sure I was seeing breeding behavior when I saw it. This primarily because Ive never had mouthbrooders. Im used to spawning behaviors of rams and discus-- this looked different. They kept digging pits and the two guarding these areas. I guess that is when you know they are ready?
Its okay if she spits them this time. She and i are both novices-- we will get it right next time

 

[neutrino]

I might be outnumbered on this, so far, but I've bred a lot of fish and there's more than one viable approach and I've done it different ways. I successfully bred G. Tapajos (red/orange head geos) for several years in a tank with rotkeil severums and wild Peru angelfish. They're delayed mouthbrooders (lay eggs on a smooth surface, then pick them up after two or three days) and held their own in protecting eggs and fry until I wanted to collect them out to a growout tank. How well that works may depend on the pair, what else is in the tank, what you have for cover, how many fry you want to raise, etc. I set the tank up with a corner they could protect, with some rock, driftwood branches, etc.; even after they would start to venture out with their fry the red heads kept the other fish away, but, as I say, this will depend on the tank.

If they lay eggs on a piece of slate, driftwood, etc., you can also transfer this to a separate tank to incubate the eggs. An alternative to moving a female holding (mouthbrooding) eggs or fry is to create a divider in the tank. Makes it easier to collect the fry when you're ready. Certainly a maternity tank for a female or a separate tank for the breeding pair are two options.

I spent years stripping eggs or fry, raised many hundreds of fish this way, but I normally prefer not to anymore.

When I'm feeding a fry tank, especially species with tiny fry, I like to start them on crushed up freeze dried brine shrimp, which crushes up to powder pretty easily. Before I discovered this I simply crushed up flake (now my phase 2) or crushed up pellets. I also like to have some driftwood (or rocks, etc.) with algae on it, fry of a lot species will graze on it ime. But even when I've let parents raise fry in the main tank for a while, or when I've had the odd babies hide and surprise me one day when they show up and I didn't know they were there, they obviously found enough little bits of food to get by on.

Not disagreeing with anyone else. My point is there's more than one way that works, depending on personal preference and other factors. You may find your preference, or what works best for you, evolves over time.

Agree with having something over the filter intake for new fry (unless you set them up with a sponge filter only, something I never bothered with), I did either a foam pre-filter or attached a Tetra bio bag or something similar to the intake.