Green Sunfish Questions

[Dunbar]

Hey All,

Just joined up and I have a few questions about my green sunfish.

Ok, so in September and my roomate were fly fishing at a local lake, and we caught 2 tiny sunnies (1-2 inches). So we kept them, and have had them in a 5 gallon tank with appropriate structure. For a while everything was fine! We were feeding them sun dried grammars (tiny shrimp/scuds), bugs, and worms. We also had a crayfish in there, then one day Dunbar ate it. We were shocked he/she could eat something that big so we started getting them minnows.

Here's the problem. Dunbar is the only one who eats the minnows. Santiago (the other fish) has barely grown and Dunbar is almost twice Santiago's size. Now that Dunbar is much bigger, he/she is becoming territorial and doesnt let Santiago come into the open water. Dunbar is always chasing him into the corners where he hides almost all day. Sometimes he doesn't even come out to eat. He has not even eaten one of the 50+ minnows we have gotten them.

Dunbar is bigger, yellower, and has less vibrant colors. Santiago is dark, smaller, and much more vibrant. This makes me think Dunbar is a female, and Santiago is a male. Now, what do you suggest I do? Should I split them up? Get them a bigger tank (already plan to, but not sure how big I should go).

Also, how do you suggest I transport them? My college is 3 hours away roughly. I took them home in the tank with the water lowered for christmas break but they seemed a bit slow when I got back which worried me. I've really become attatched to these little guys haha.

Sorry for the wall of text, and thanks in advance!

Ty

 

[cmj15]

for a full grown green sunfish you will need atleast a 55 if not a 75 because they can grow over 12" and I caught one that was 17". if you get a new tank, i would get a divider to separate the two until santiago grows to the same size, but with sunfish there is always aggression because they are a very territorial fish

 

[Dunbar]

for a full grown green sunfish you will need atleast a 55 if not a 75 because they can grow over 12" and I caught one that was 17". if you get a new tank, i would get a divider to separate the two until santiago grows to the same size, but with sunfish there is always aggression because they are a very territorial fish

Can they ever live together once they are the same size? When they were the same size they used to be really playful, then Dunbar seemed to turn on him once he got bigger. I'm afraid I am going to take up and Santiago is going to be gone one of these days.

We used to have a third that was even smaller. But he jumped out of the tank twice in the first 2 weeks. RIP Kief

 

[Dunbar]

Here are some pictures of the little guys. Sorry if the quality is bad. I don't have my laptop at the moment to directly upload them to photobucket, just WasteBook

 

[davdev]

for a full grown green sunfish you will need atleast a 55 if not a 75 because they can grow over 12" and I caught one that was 17". if you get a new tank, i would get a divider to separate the two until santiago grows to the same size, but with sunfish there is always aggression because they are a very territorial fish

Greenies don't get anywhere near that big, 6-7" tops. That said, for two you would probably need at least a 40 gallon breader, preferably bigger. Once they are in a bigger space, the agression will probably calm down a bit. Just make sure you create a few territories they can claim.

 

[snip]

I've never seen one over 7 inches. A bigger tank should do it. I've kept warmouth, sunfish 7 small mouth in the same tank before & they did fine with the occasional bass bullying the warmouth

 

[pelleeklund]

They are tough fish, I've kept a bunch of them as dithers. They always fight though, and in my tanks there was always a dominant one who constantly harassed the other. I noticed the more aggressive fish was always lighter but never figured out whether that was a sexual difference or for the weaker fish to better camouflage itself. Unfortunately, I don't think they will ever stop fighting regardless of size because they are super territorial and aggressive with each other. I'm sure a lot of it is due to their being wild, making them instinctually very competitive, or potential partners I guess, depending on their sex.
I'm surprised that your having trouble getting one to eat live though. I've had 2 inch greenies chase feeders that rival them in size. They are notoriously great eaters and usually pellet train within a day of being in the tank. I'm thinking that maybe something is wrong with your runt, possibly sick or being dominated so much he doesn't have the nerve to step up and compete with the big dog for food. I'm not trying to worry you but if they are that different in size and temperment the little guy may be taking a dirt nap soon. Nature sucks like that I guess, but if your looking for them to make peace I wouldn't count on it regardless of how equal they get in size. The more similar mine have been in size the less they concede when fighting, so the scraps are much worse.
Either way good luck, maybe your two will be exceptions to the rule, I hope for your sake everything works out peacefully.

 

[Jmart159]

I think the small one is getting bullied too much and will eventually be killed by the larger one if you don't get a bigger tank soon. Even if he doesn't kill him directly, I think the stress will. I wouldn't go with anything less than a 55g for them and even that may not be enough space once they are fully grown.

 

[ShadowBass]

Personally I think anything less than a 40 breeder is too small for one greenie. A 40 breeder would be optimal over a 55 imo, because the depth front to back is larger. Neither a 55 nor 40b, however, is really a good choice for more than one sunfish. For multiple larger species of sunfish you want at least a 75g. I the meantime, lacking a larger tank, they need to be separated for the health of both of them.

If you want to keep them together without too much damage, the best bet is a 75g+ aquarium with several sunfish to spread aggression (I had a 125g with about 12 or so various species of sunfish and everyone was healthy, happy and intact. Even with the presence of a very aggressive red devil who made me bleed various times ) Overstocking will require a lot of water changes, but sunfish are very hardy and actually seem to enjoy large frequent water changes. This is my old tank http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz07...xt=C316633bUDOEgsToPDskL-WLMBQNhV_rdADL6uO7mB, those water changes were done at least once per week, and notice no one seems especially stressed. Sunfish are generally built to handle living places where water levels and water chemistry can change rapidly, which is why they're so prolific pretty much anywhere. Green sunfish especially are very tolerant of changing water conditions.
Their housing requirements, personality wise, are similar to semi-aggressive cichlids. Two together will generally fight, until one establishes dominance by causing the other to go into hiding nearly 24/7, or killing it. Worse, they could both kill each other if neither will submit. Risking that kind of fighting is a bit cruel, since it's rarely a quick death, but more like one ends up with extensive injuries and missing parts until dying later on.

For transportation, a bucket or cooler with a battery powered air pump and stone are what I use for all natives, and just about all other fish. They are a lot less sluggish when they reach their destination, and I've never had any fatalities with this method. You can throw in some Prime for ammonia detoxification, though it shouldn't really be a problem for only 3 hours.

 

[kemps397]

I used to have two green sunfish similar to yours one was bigger and less vibrant than the other. I had them in a 40 gallon breeder with two main places of cover. that worked out only for about three months though. The bigger one just kept growing faster the the smaller one. The seemed to get along decently for a while but eventually the larger one killed the smaller one. Id definitely agree that 40 is not big enough. You need minimum 55.