Haitiensis Genetics

[Trimapit]

In the past, I have purchased Haitiensis from LFS. Always lost them to bloat. Sometimes it was quickly after the purchase, other times it was after a couple months.
A buddy of mine has an F1 pair from UMBEE KING that spawned. I acquired (5) growouts from him a few months back and everything is going great!! In fact (2) have paired up.

This leads us to the topic at hand:
Is it possible that Genetics plays a part in the Bloat issue in these fish?

 

[duanes]

Although genetics may be a factor, I believe proper environment care is the key.
I acquired my first 12, and soon lost them to bloat, not realizing they need fairly high temps, (mid 80s and above). I also believe at lower temps they have a hard time digesting food (especially protein) which leads to bloat.
I corrected the temp problem, after reading about their natural conditions, in Hispaniola.
My next 6 faired better until the larger ones intimidated the younger less alpha ones into high stress, and naturally disease.
Separating them into compartments where they could escape from view of others helped (into flower pots) helped, and I ended up with a pair that lived and spawned in their tank for years, until I lost power in the dead of winter and the female died.
I also believe because they are the only cichlid endemic to their island, in most cases, trying to keep them in a community is unnatural, and a bad idea. I kept mine as a pair in a 150 gal tank, with no other cichlids, and they grew to make that size tank look tiny.

 

[Trimapit]

And all of that i agree with. The only reason why i raise the question is the current success. I have done the same thing with this batch that i did with the others. And these are noticeably stronger, more active, higher feeding response, etc.
Now.... They are in a lower traffic area of the house. So that is different then past tries. But my care habbits are the same.

 

[Trimapit]

Although genetics may be a factor, I believe proper environment care is the key.
I acquired my first 12, and soon lost them to bloat, not realizing they need fairly high temps, (mid 80s and above). I also believe at lower temps they have a hard time digesting food (especially protein) which leads to bloat.
I corrected the temp problem, after reading about their natural conditions, in Hispaniola.
My next 6 faired better until the larger ones intimidated the younger less alpha ones into high stress, and naturally disease.
Separating them into compartments where they could escape from view of others helped (into flower pots) helped, and I ended up with a pair that lived and spawned in their tank for years, until I lost power in the dead of winter and the female died.
I also believe because they are the only cichlid endemic to their island, in most cases, trying to keep them in a community is unnatural, and a bad idea. I kept mine as a pair in a 150 gal tank, with no other cichlids, and they grew to make that size tank look tiny.

Thank you for your response btw Duanes. I always really appreciate you knowledge and input.

 

[duanes]

Most LFSs don't have the capacity, or maybe even the know how to properly handle specialty species like haitiensus, and often just a week in a display tank at a store can put sensitive fish like that into a downward spiral, they may never come back from.
Getting top quality individuals from respected vendors, that have cared for them meticulously from the get go, or by specialized breeders is often the key to success with more exotic, less well known species.
Bread and butter, and most very common fish are usually hardy enough, but anything in the least bit off the normal path, can be a risky purchase.
I must admit that almost every fish I have acquired over the last 20 years did "not" come from LFSs, they either came from respected breeders, vendors, or members of my local fish club.
Not only for the above reasons, but maybe even more so, the LFSs never carried the species I wanted.

 

[mr cichlid]

Hmmm, very interesting. A real nice guy (wont mention his name without permission) shipped me half dozen nasties that are from umbee kings blood line. Healthy as horses. mashaAllaah. I've gotten from COTA and wet spot. i took extra special care of them and all but 2 croaked. I'm saying "yes" genetics matter.

 

[Trimapit]

Hmmm, very interesting. A real nice guy (wont mention his name without permission) shipped me half dozen nasties that are from umbee kings blood line. Healthy as horses. mashaAllaah. I've gotten from COTA and wet spot. i took extra special care of them and all but 2 croaked. I'm saying "yes" genetics matter.

Was that guy from Texas perhaps?

 

[RD.]

Most LFSs don't have the capacity, or maybe even the know how to properly handle specialty species like haitiensus, and often just a week in a display tank at a store can put sensitive fish like that into a downward spiral, they may never come back from.
Getting top quality individuals from respected vendors, that have cared for them meticulously from the get go, or by specialized breeders is often the key to success with more exotic, less well known species.

Bingo!

 

[dan518]

What's the catch location of umbee Kings pair? Curious to know if the various types in the hobby stems from breeding or different wild strains. I think his would be the first wc pair in the hobby for a long time.

 

[Trimapit]

No clue. My buddy didn't say. But I'm trying to remember....... About a year ago i contacted Umbee King and he had some F1 or F2 available at that point. But i don't remember him saying a catch location.