Having a mysterious angel issue

[PoopSmart]

Recently I bought 8 angels from a reputable breeder. They all look pretty healthy (except one koi that IMO should have been culled because it is missing half of its pelvic fin). Anyway one of the angels died for, well, I have no idea. I tested my water, no ammonia, no nitrites, and maybe 10-20 nitrates (very well established tank, my oldest tank). I figured it would be better to have some nitrates than the chance of recycling the tank by over cleaning it. I have 2 large pieces of driftwood and a fancy plants giant in there. They all look happy and healthy, but this black angel dying mysteriously has thrown me off guard.


They are a little bigger than dime size (some still dime size) but it looks like one of the kois is clamping its fins and hiding a lot. I did another water change, put some flakes in, and turned out the lights.


Should I put some salt in there? The only other tankmates are 3 1.5" clown loaches.

Any info at all would be appreciatd.

 

[PoopSmart]

Anything at all? Could they just be delicate young ones?

 

[DPFHPRES]

What is the tempature? Are the clown loaches bothering them sometimes they will

 

[ziggy2]

At that size, just the stress from being moved from one tank to another could do it. Did you check the parameters of the breeders water? It is always good to find out what they are used to being kept in. I try and get the water as close as possible and very slowly over a few weeks let the parameters go to where it is easy for me to hold them. Mainly the hardness and ph is what I'm talking about. The nitrites and ammonia should always be 0 and 20 isn't too bad for nitrates.

 

[windsurfer]

hmmm. Sorry for your problems.

If the dealer is reputable, there shouldn't have been a cull in with your other fish, but that doesn't help you now. It makes me suspicious of the conditions that they were raised in and may have nothing to do with your tank - but if the dealer is truly reputable, we won't go there.

I've gotten quite a few angels shipped from breeders and a healthy angel shouldn't be that delicate IMO.

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A few questions:
Were they shipped, or did you pick them up?

Do you know the hardness and pH of the breeders water (is it a lot different than yours?)?

How long have you had them?

When did the first one die?
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I would watch very closely for other external symptoms. I don't see how salt would hurt at this point. It also doesn't sound bacterial to me, in which case I would up the temp to 84-86 with good aeration.

Hard to diagnose without more symptoms.

I understand why you don't want to post the dealers name here, but if you want to PM me, I am familiar with quite a few of the bigger angel dealers nationally.

hth,
windsurfer

 

[scubasteve06]

when I bought my first 3 angels one died off very mysteriously over night with no ammonia spikes no sign of nitrites and a hint of nitrate at the 5ppm mark. These fish are very delicate and do not handle stress well at all. This could of been the demise of your fish and very well my fish too.

 

[scubasteve06]

BTW this is a little off topic but if anyone wants veil angels I know a lady that has several 150 gallon tanks full of fry. She has more than 2000 sub juvies and 1000 juvies right now with a good selection of sub adult specimens too. Her males are known for their nuchal hump, not huge but it is prominent.

 

[PoopSmart]

I picked them up at the meeting point and my pH is at a perfect 7 (I use neutral regulator and driftwood to keep it down).

I have had them for I think about 9 days now. The temp is at 80, and the first one died maybe 2 days ago?

I am really dumbfounded, but I talked to teh guy and he said he just had a major die off in his black angel fry tank, about half kicked the bucket (I didn't mention that mine died as this was a couple days before mine did).


Maybe it was a bad spawn? I mean they are dime sized guys, I know they aren't very hardy at this size, but I was just hoping I wasn't going to have any deaths as I really take them to heart, that I am doing something wrong. Its irresponsible to blame it on the fish, especially if this next one dies on me.

As far as aeration, I have a bubble wall stretching the entire length of the tank. Its all along the back.

And the clowns are actually bothering them a little bit whoever mentioned that. I saw one chasing one of the angels earlier today, but I think its both ways, they bother each other.

Both are well fed frozen bloodworms a couple times a week, flakes 2x's daily, and HBH supersoft 1x daily.

 

[jakeca77]

Sounds similar to what happened to my Angels. I fixed it by using equal parts neutral regulator with discus buffer and a little salt. I haven't had a problem since. The Neutral by itself just didn't seem to do the trick. The water where I live is really alkaline..... Also the black Angelfish although beautiful are also usually very inbred and are very susceptible to disease and stress.