Heres the situation, I just started this tank about 2 weeks ago, the salt is about 1.024. I went to my LFS 2 days ago and asked how I should start the cycle. They told me to buy 15 lbs of live rock to seed onto my lace rock so I did, its a 33 gallon FOWLR BTW. They also said I should skip the damsels and just get the live rock and a clown two days ago, they knew the whole situation. Also, im new to salt but they insisted that I just pour out the old water and drop him directly into the tank without acclimating him at all, the tank is between 80-82 because my house temprature is about that. Hes just kinda been sitting there on the sand occasionally swimming, but today he hasnt moved much. I turned the light out for about 30 mins and when I turned it back on, hes been sitting there since, he let me touch him and gently bring him to the top of the tank and when I move he just falls and hits the sand. Anyone have any ideas. Like I said im new to this but the not acclimating and starting with clowns as the first fish sounded like a dumb idea even to me. The weird thing is though I acclimated a FW mollie and its doing fine but the clown isnt really moving. Any Ideas? Anything could help Thanks guys
HELP CLOWNFISH DYING
- Thread starter redwetar666
- Start date
First mistake was taking advice from a fish store and then you didn't acclimate the clown fish because your fish store insisted not to?... With the amount of stress your clown fish has gone through I don't know how likely is it that he will recover but if you ever want to safely cycle your fish tank with fish you should purchase seachem stability or tetra safestart to make sure your fish don't suffer.
Should I add safe start each time I add a fish or just once? And normally I wouldnt have listened but theyre one of the most reliable pet dtores around here and like I said I dont know anything yet man, first try at it, kept cichlids for years but new to salt man.
I have never used tetra safestart/Dr.Tim's one and only but I personally know a large amount of fish keepers that have had success with using it. I dosed Seachem Stability for a week and at the end of the 7th day my tank was cycled so I can vouch for it working, it might help your tank I don't know how far your tank is through the cycling process though.
Ok I'm not even going to go into detail on everything that place instructed you to do - "that's effing retarded" is going to be my official response. I can sympathize with the fact that you're now worried about the clown and feel bad because you were trusting the word of someone else who's assumed to know what they're talking about just by their station alone... But you can't do that. You, as the consumer and hobbiest, should have already educated yourself as to the proper way to start and cycle a marine tank. While asking questions is never discouraged, you should have already established a firm enough fundamental knowledge base to have had the confidence and know-how to handle that situation with, or without additional input. You can't be blase, and skirt around the learning and dedication just to enjoy the (inevitably temporary) beauty and bliss that comes from owning a salt-tank. You have to make sure that the animals you take in, in creating this marine ecosystem, are ones in which you're educated on prior to their purchase, and in an environment you understand and have the ability to properly maintain. That is your responsibility as a consumer, a hobbiest, and a decent human being. That said, you're not the first, and won't be the last to make mistakes in their excitement and desire to explore the marine world. So don't kick yourself, learn from it. When it comes to this current situation, you're going to have to act quickly if there is any chance at recovery for that little guy. Right now your tank is going to be going through a roller-coaster of parameter changes as it begins its nitrogen cycling, and that my friend, is something your already stressed and impaired clown might not make it through, as though they're relatively hardy, they aren't that tough. My best advice to you, would be to take that clown fish back to the pet store you purchased it from, and get your money back, making sure that THEY acclimate the clown BACK to their water. And while you're there, I would encourage you to confront them on the "advice" they gave you, and inform them that ALL fish need to be properly acclimated, and NO brand new tank not even cycled, should have fish plopped right into it. They should know this, and it was irresponsible and selfish on their part to sell you the clown and mislead you. But you, as the consumer, have a right and responsibility to ammend that error, and do what you can to save this fish from a pointless death. Adding water conditioners and de-chlorinators, slime-coat replenishers, etc. are all good things and yes, do have their purpose, however, in a tank that hasn't cycled, that just had your rock (which will go through it's own cycling and die-off in your tank simulaneously) added into it, and now this fish - stability is a way's off, and those additives are helpful for their specific purposes, but they will not cycle your tank for you. Some might encourage the speed of a cycle by kick-starting it, however, it still takes several weeks, and will not spare your tank from the extreme up's and down's it's now going to experience. That's just a 'nature' thing. If you decide to go against this advice though, I suggest you immediately do a reading of all your tank parameters to know exactly what your fish is living in right now, and get a broad spectrum picture of where to start. Keeping a healthy slime-coat is one of a fish's most valuable defense mechanisms as it keeps their permeable tissues insulated from outside environmental fluctuations and hydrated. You'll want to make certain your tank is highly oxygenated, with double what you might normally use in the form of powerheads, making sure you've got surfance disturbance. You'll want to make sure you do condition the water, even as unstable as it is, making sure all metals are neutralized, and chlorines and chloramines are removed, with slime-coat replenisher's added simply to try and make the clown a little more comfortable, with less to fight off. You can use safe-start, but it's not going to avoid the cycle, only jump start it, so if you do, you'll want to make sure you're monitoring your water parameters, and doing frequent water changes, when you notice the ammonia and nitrites rising, because they will. Keep an eye on your tank daily, and you'll need to address each change appropriately, and check your pH during this too, and make sure it doesn't dip low. A warmer temp is better, but you might want to cool yours down a bit, opt for 74-78, not 82, that's a bit high. If you do'nt have a chiller, you can add bags of ice and secure them at the surface (cold will cool, but ice will melt in bag, not in tank), and raise your lights or add another fan to whisk away additional heat from the light. Keep a shorter light shedule too, maybe 4-5 hours a day. I still suggest you take it back, properly cycle your tank, and then look into adding fish, but I can't make the decision for you. Good luck and keep us posted.
Once again good stuff, unfortunately, as of late the popular opinion around here is cycling only takes 5 days to a week and ammonia's and nitrite are zero as is Nitrate - very hard to believe for me personally as it took 9 weeks cycling with cured LR for my nitrates to get as low as 20 ppm with no fish. Apparently they sell miracles in a bottle now and as long as your using R/O DI water you can add fish the same day. AND- B+B lives in the water column so use your buddies water and your good to go.
When you read stuff like that, it gives ppl a false sense of security and they go with what seems to be the easier more instant way only find a boat load of problems and just disappear from the forum with no real accurate follow up. It wasn't fun watching a huge rockplie for 2 months but sure paid dividends after that. If the breakdown of solid waste started with simple aerobic bacteria converting then we'd have Zero Po4 issues and if it ended with Nitrates perhaps it might be possible to cycle thru in a week or 2. However it does not, it ends with the expulsion of harmless Nitrogen gas - anaerobic bacterial growth is grossly misunderstood and most often over looked. This process is not called the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate cycle - it's the Nitrogen cycle.
When you read stuff like that, it gives ppl a false sense of security and they go with what seems to be the easier more instant way only find a boat load of problems and just disappear from the forum with no real accurate follow up. It wasn't fun watching a huge rockplie for 2 months but sure paid dividends after that. If the breakdown of solid waste started with simple aerobic bacteria converting then we'd have Zero Po4 issues and if it ended with Nitrates perhaps it might be possible to cycle thru in a week or 2. However it does not, it ends with the expulsion of harmless Nitrogen gas - anaerobic bacterial growth is grossly misunderstood and most often over looked. This process is not called the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate cycle - it's the Nitrogen cycle.
I'm not going to disagree with you but seachem stability and tetra safestart have worked for people who can vouch 100% for the product. You can believe what you want but I can personally vouch for seachem stability cycling my tank in a week and for the past couple of months I have been testing my water parameters and guess what absolutely no problem what so ever. This has been my fish salt water tank and the first time I have ever cycled an aquarium using any of these products and I was quite skeptical also but alas it worked so I cant really complain at all. I cant tell people that everything will go by smoothly with no losses or tell them its going to be easy but I can recommend products that might make the cycling process faster for them.
I asked how long his tank was through the cycling process to see if the product that I listed might help out, I also stated that if he ever wanted to add fish during the cycling process that he would be better of using stability or safestart
I hear ya - now check this out................ Seachem stability says they have "Super Secret" Nitrirfying and de-nitrifying colonies in a bottle as well as bacteria known to breakdown solid waste and it works because the bacteria they are providing does so on a weekly basis.
The Known strain of bacteria that breakdowns down ammonia in water is Nitrosomonas, the known strain of nitrite converting bacteria is Nitrobacter - no super secret here. Both live an an oxygen rich enviorment hence Aerobic bacteria. There are so many different strains of de-nirtrifying bacteria that they can't name them all, they are "A" specific to there individual enviorment. These bacterias are called anerobic,they live in Stagnate or oxygen deficiet enviorments, however, do very much need a constant source of nitrite inorder to survive.
Oxygen gets into the water thru surface turbulence like water falls and waves. Oxygen does not get into sealed plastic bottles sitting on a loading dock or fish store shelf. Seachem's claim to have live bacteria is total crap. What they are selling is chemicals that trap Nitrogeneous matter much like dechlorinator does to chlorine and then the trapped material is discarded thru large volume waterchanges.
I've been to seachem's FAQ - Q + A and the constant Q is "why is ammonia still at .025 after 2 weeks, I only added a few fish". More than likely this is because not enuff time has elapsed for Nitrosomonas and nitrobacter to effectively grow sufficent colonies to handle the bio-load. This is why seachem's website directs you to keep on using their product every week with Prime to artifically control the Nitrogen cycle. The Nitrogen cycle will happen with or without Seachem anything. What they are selling is instant Chemical refief for your fishes not an instant nitrogen cycle.
More than likely yor success had/has more to do with the quality of your LR with alil' chemical help from seachem in trapping excess nitrogenous material - eventually their barrier will break down - so whats trapped needs to be physically removed via waterchanges and/or carbon. There is no greater False sense of security then chemical/pharmacutical companies sellig you band aids labeled as cures. Don't believe me - type in "DuPont - Imprellis" and the results of it's new super secret formula - last year they killed millions upon millions of trees
The Known strain of bacteria that breakdowns down ammonia in water is Nitrosomonas, the known strain of nitrite converting bacteria is Nitrobacter - no super secret here. Both live an an oxygen rich enviorment hence Aerobic bacteria. There are so many different strains of de-nirtrifying bacteria that they can't name them all, they are "A" specific to there individual enviorment. These bacterias are called anerobic,they live in Stagnate or oxygen deficiet enviorments, however, do very much need a constant source of nitrite inorder to survive.
Oxygen gets into the water thru surface turbulence like water falls and waves. Oxygen does not get into sealed plastic bottles sitting on a loading dock or fish store shelf. Seachem's claim to have live bacteria is total crap. What they are selling is chemicals that trap Nitrogeneous matter much like dechlorinator does to chlorine and then the trapped material is discarded thru large volume waterchanges.
I've been to seachem's FAQ - Q + A and the constant Q is "why is ammonia still at .025 after 2 weeks, I only added a few fish". More than likely this is because not enuff time has elapsed for Nitrosomonas and nitrobacter to effectively grow sufficent colonies to handle the bio-load. This is why seachem's website directs you to keep on using their product every week with Prime to artifically control the Nitrogen cycle. The Nitrogen cycle will happen with or without Seachem anything. What they are selling is instant Chemical refief for your fishes not an instant nitrogen cycle.
More than likely yor success had/has more to do with the quality of your LR with alil' chemical help from seachem in trapping excess nitrogenous material - eventually their barrier will break down - so whats trapped needs to be physically removed via waterchanges and/or carbon. There is no greater False sense of security then chemical/pharmacutical companies sellig you band aids labeled as cures. Don't believe me - type in "DuPont - Imprellis" and the results of it's new super secret formula - last year they killed millions upon millions of trees