Help ID these severums

[choomanji]

Considering getting these but wanted to confirm what they are. I think one on right (also 4th pic) is red shoulder/rotkiel and the one on left is green (also 3rd pic). I'd prefer they both be red shoulders though. Any idea? Would they be considered good color or should I consider ordering from wetspot or rapps? And what about male or female? Sorry for the grainy pics.

 

[ryansmith83]

One definitely has a red shoulder coming in so its a rotkeil or maybe a rotkeil X efasciatus. The other could be as well; you'll have to wait until it matures to see if it develops any red.

Males will have worming patterns on the gill/cheek/nose while females have solid faces. The pictures are too grainy to tell but it looks like the rotkeil may be a young male and the other a young female. Again, these traits develop with age.